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Old Oct 08, 2012, 09:49 AM
Gone Fly'n
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Hi Ken...I was understanding elevons as having both functions (aileron/elevator) and a hinged attachment... and tailerons as having both functions, being full moving...one of the same...linked ailerons as just linked ailerons...I learned something new today
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 11:48 AM
Gone Fly'n
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Ken...I just bothered to re measure the specs on the F-101 and was astonished to find that the length was coming in at 47"...I'm thinking this will be a huge plane and way to big for a BW motor...Fred's idea of a set scale for big jets might be the way to go...bringing it down to a 1/20th scale put it roughly at 23.5" ws with 104.5 sq in wing area and 39" length...of course planes like the hunter and vampire would do better to be kept around the 150 sq in area being that those planes are smaller in full scale...what are your thoughts?
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by planecrazy1969 View Post
Hi Ken...I was understanding elevons as having both functions (aileron/elevator) and a hinged attachment... and tailerons as having both functions, being full moving...one of the same...linked ailerons as just linked ailerons...I learned something new today
Elevons and tailerons work the same, only located in different locations on the airframe. Linked ailerons (also could say linked tailerons), make the airplane have elevons and tailerons! Works very well indeed, although I resisted for years, I have used often.

I have seen designers make models of just about everything using just tailerons. This was jumbo commercial jets, down to F-16's. Problem is I don't always like how a model flys with just tailerons, especially an airliner I tried once. So there is no rule of thumb, it comes down to trial and error to see what you like, and how it flys. A safer bet would be to mimic the full scale you model. If it had full flying stabs, then it's probably a safe bet.

Fred


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Old Oct 08, 2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by planecrazy1969 View Post
Ken...I just bothered to re measure the specs on the F-101 and was astonished to find that the length was coming in at 47"...I'm thinking this will be a huge plane and way to big for a BW motor...Fred's idea of a set scale for big jets might be the way to go...bringing it down to a 1/20th scale put it roughly at 23.5" ws with 104.5 sq in wing area and 39" length...of course planes like the hunter and vampire would do better to be kept around the 150 sq in area being that those planes are smaller in full scale...what are your thoughts?
I need to finish my A-10 and Yak-17 on my bench, then I will be making one of these. I had not heard an answer on the 'Scale Size' ruling, but will be chosing a 'Scale' and will work to that on mine. If it doesn't fit the 'standard' here then someone else will have to re-size the thing. I am still hoping Ken might pick a range like the "16th-18th' scale he mentioned in one post. I'm not sure if the "16-18th" is optimum or not, but we do need something to keep them all in proportion. I would want my jet to look like it is the "right size" when fighting my enemy's jet, so scaleing is the only way this would work.

Fred
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 12:49 PM
Gone Fly'n
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Hi Fred...I agree...there's such a variety of sizes and shapes when it comes to jets, scale might be the way to go, but in a turning battle for combat a big old F-101, which was more of an interceptor, would probably have a disadvantage against a smaller vampire...lol...not sure what direction to go

Stace
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 12:58 PM
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Hi Fred...I agree...there's such a variety of sizes and shapes when it comes to jets, scale might be the way to go, but in a turning battle for combat a big old F-101, which was more of an interceptor, would probably have a disadvantage against a smaller vampire...lol...not sure what direction to go

Stace
That is more than fair. But a MiG-21 might choose to fight a F-101. Then you may need an F-22 to battle a MiG 29. You wouldn't want a SR-71 to be combating a Eurojet. That is the beauty of combat, you need different models for differnt flight modes. If we wanted everything equal, then just two similar designs, down to the wight and control surface type would be needed to keep the playing field 'Fair'. Skill as a pilot will dictate some choices, as will airframe for each pilot. Probably will have events such as '1940's-1960' combat, 1961-1975 combat, and 1976-to present events????

Fred
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 01:17 PM
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Ooh...I like what your saying Fred...now that makes sense...jets battling from the same era...then keeping with the scale is ideal...and that also means different sized powerplants to accommodate larger airframes...I like it

Stace
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Ooh...I like what your saying Fred...now that makes sense...jets battling from the same era...then keeping with the scale is ideal...and that also means different sized powerplants to accommodate larger airframes...I like it

Stace
Not my thread though. Ken has to make these decisions. It would be nice and I might have some converts here in the Omaha Area since they like jets, but didn't like prop jobs. Go figure? Combat is combat?

Fred
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 01:46 PM
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Stace and Fred,

The 1/16 - 1/18 scale range seems flexible enough, but obiviously there are even exceptions to that range. I was shocked to find out that the F-106 Delta Dart has a 38.25 ft. wingspan and is 70 ft. long.

I have created a scale calculator in Excel with a few models in it. Scale is selectable for each model in a range from 1/12 - 1/20. Lastest version here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=157

See if this works for you.
Ken
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 01:50 PM
Gone Fly'n
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Not my thread though. Ken has to make these decisions. It would be nice and I might have some converts here in the Omaha Area since they like jets, but didn't like prop jobs. Go figure? Combat is combat?

Fred

Yep...will wait for Kens decision on which way to go
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by planecrazy1969 View Post
Yep...will wait for Kens decision on which way to go
1/16 - 1/18 scale range seems flexible enough

Ken
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 02:00 PM
Gone Fly'n
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That's awesome thanks Ken
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 04:17 PM
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Ken.

do we use this table to match new aircraft to similar size tabulated aircraft?
Example: the Mirage F1 is almost identical to a Mirage III in o/l & span... so it goes into the same scale as the III which is allready tabulated....

Or do we submit & you scale? (Obviouly we submit with a 3-view & major dimentions so you dont have to scrounge for it)


George
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 04:31 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
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George,
If you select the the scale box for any given aircraft. You get a drop down that allows you to select 12, 14, 16, 18, or 20th scale. It then calculates the wingspan and length from feet to scaled inches. This is just a tool for you to make use of in determining what size will be best for your project, and allow you to select different scales for each aircraft for comparison. The file can be modified to get more scale values as well.

WIkipedia usually has wing area listed as well. So that can calculate once the information is entered,

Ken
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dz1sfb View Post
1/16 - 1/18 scale range seems flexible enough

Ken
Yes, thanks Ken. And I do understand the rules have to be flerxable. It would be very hard to set rules in stone, early on, and not have room to expand or change as the need arrises. And yes, many jets are very long indeed. Standing next to many jet aircraft, compared to standing next to a WWII fighter can open one's eyes!

Fred

I downloaded the Excel file and it worked. Don't laugh I upgraded windows 7 and the office copy is a simple starter version, go figure. At $175.00 or whatever it was you would think they could give you a fully functioning program. After all I'm not a Fortune 500 company.
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