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Old Oct 07, 2012, 10:20 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
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Attica, MI
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The only drawback for the 2200 Kv motors (2212-06) are great motors, but too large in my thinking (heavy).

I know a 5x5 APC would function well on 3s with the 1700 BW. However it may be worth looking at some other possibilities.

Ken
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 10:39 AM
Gone Fly'n
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Yeah those motors are a bit heavier...need to get my hands on some BWs and get one of these century series jets built and flying...you know I didn't think about props size before...was trying to keep a 7" prop on these planes...might have to take another look at the F-100 and design it again with a 5"-6" prop in slot
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 10:47 AM
Gone Fly'n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgy View Post
Stace,
Now your talking (drawing?!) my language! Love slot-jet set-ups.
What prop size? With the 7x6 that thing is gonna have to be huge...
Hi George...I was thinking a smaller prop might be better also making the airframe stronger...as it sits now it is designed for a 7" prop...I guess these BWs can spin smaller props pretty well so that might be the ideal motor for them and I think Ken is trying to keep the planes within certain parameters for combat...I will certainly experiment with different motors once I get one built

Stace
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 10:50 AM
Gone Fly'n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie B View Post
The Blue Wonder style (24g) motors, at 3000kv, are best on 4.1"x4.1" to 5" x4.5" props. The 18 amp ESC needed is only a few grams heavier than a 10-12A size. Although a larger battery is needed for similar flight times, not necessary for just flying. Speed is awsome, in the 90-100 mph ranges.

Fred
I think your right Fred...that might be the ideal motor for these birds...where can I find these...I like the weight especially for the rear motor mounted planes...I don't want cg issues for sure

Stace
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 11:02 AM
Allways the hard way!
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South Africa, GP, Germiston
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[QUOTE=dz1sfb;22934636]George,
Not sure what you mean by this . Could you clarify?

Ken,

Jip, now that i re-read it I am also confused

What i meant was: Like the author in the "other" thread who lost his H-Stab mid fligh! It would be bad if you lost your H-Stab... but with elevon control you would still be able to fly as your H-Stab doesn't contain the elevator... Hope you understand now what i think i was trying to say

Sorry about the confusion.... My 1st language is not english...

Stace,
Why did you call the 2200Kv "Infamous"? Just got the Turnigy 2826/6 2200Kv... Must say I am a bit disappointed: Ran several props on the bench on 3cell & the power is NOT really wow??!!
Miss the power i get from my recently used power preferance: All my recent profile jets run on heli motors:

1) 2508 3500Kv heli on 3cell with 4x2 apc = 420g thrust @ only about 15amp (in the Eurofighter) Great power with nice vertical +/- 6-7 min f/time on 1300mah Nano. This one is an awesome power-plant for the moddeler that can mod b/l motors (shaft replacement) I guess that the 3000Kv B/W will do much the same, & allow using small props to suit smaller fuse hights when considering slot-prop set-ups.

2) 2218 3550Kv heli on 3cell with 5.5x4.5 apc = 1000g thrust @ 52amp. Definately not for this thread, but a monster of a power setup with cruise-missile vertical!!

Not really the intended use, but not great/affordable choice available in SA a.t.m... so you make work what's available...

George
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Last edited by georgy; Oct 07, 2012 at 11:44 AM. Reason: typo
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Wilfor's Avatar
150 mile house B.C. Canada
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planecrazy1969 View Post
I think your right Fred...that might be the ideal motor for these birds...where can I find these...I like the weight especially for the rear motor mounted planes...I don't want cg issues for sure

Stace
Both Fred and Ken will give you the same recommendation as me for 3000kv BW motors . Don is the man at Strongrcmotors . Ive got 2 of the 3000kv one from him and there great . .

On another note are you going to Ace in the Hole PC1969 ? if so im jealous
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 12:59 PM
Gone Fly'n
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Got it...thanks Wilfor...I will get an order in tonight...what is the Ace in the Hole?...is this something that takes place in las vegas?..most of my weekends are spent in los angeles...I just live in las vegas during the week for my job

Stace
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 01:09 PM
Gone Fly'n
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USA, NV, Las Vegas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgy View Post

Stace,
Why did you call the 2200Kv "Infamous"? Just got the Turnigy 2826/6 2200Kv... Must say I am a bit disappointed: Ran several props on the bench on 3cell & the power is NOT really wow??!!
Miss the power i get from my recently used power preferance: All my recent profile jets run on heli motors:

1) 2508 3500Kv heli on 3cell with 4x2 apc = 420g thrust @ only about 15amp (in the Eurofighter) Great power with nice vertical +/- 6-7 min f/time on 1300mah Nano. This one is an awesome power-plant for the moddeler that can mod b/l motors (shaft replacement) I guess that the 3000Kv B/W will do much the same, & allow using small props to suit smaller fuse hights when considering slot-prop set-ups.

2) 2218 3550Kv heli on 3cell with 5.5x4.5 apc = 1000g thrust @ 52amp. Definately not for this thread, but a monster of a power setup with cruise-missile vertical!!

Not really the intended use, but not great/affordable choice available in SA a.t.m... so you make work what's available...

George

Hi George...the 2212-06 made with a few different companies names attached, but ultimately the same motor...pretty sure its not the same as the Turnigy motor...turns anything (within weight) into a rocket ship...great power, great reliablity...use a 30A ESC and you have a great combo...a lot of people use this motor with nearly unlimited vertical on 29" ws prop in slot profile jets

Stace
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planecrazy1969 View Post
I think your right Fred...that might be the ideal motor for these birds...where can I find these...I like the weight especially for the rear motor mounted planes...I don't want cg issues for sure

Stace
Wilfor gave the correct answer (as usual): Both Fred and Ken will give you the same recommendation as me for 3000kv BW motors . Don is the man at Strongrcmotors.com . Ive got 2 of the 3000kv one from him and there great . .
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 03:07 PM
Gone Fly'n
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Just made an order for two 3000kv and two 1700kv BWs....also ordered some MPF...been wanting to give this stuff a try
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 03:32 PM
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150 mile house B.C. Canada
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PC if i was you i'd be staying in Vegas on the 12 , 13 14th right near Sam Boyd stadium

Vegas Aceinthehole

heres another Thread

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1735743

Mr Morgan will be there with some stunning planes including this one http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...690488&page=55
Which needs a maiden

And his Skyraider which also needs a maiden http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1612183

Both those would make the trip worthwhile in itself not to mention the rest of his planes and others there .

Chris
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 04:12 PM
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Elevon/Tailleron vs Aileron&Elevator?

I'm following this thread mainly to learn more about aircraft design - and I've learned a LOT up to now.
But what I still don't seem to understand is when to use Elevon/Taileron instead of the traditional Aileron&Elevator setup.
Is it about fuselage length? Wing area vs. stabilizer area? Distance between wing and tailplane? Swept wing vs straight wing?
Searched RCG literally dozens of times to find the answer, learned a lot in the meantime, but I never got a conclusive answer.

My question finally: when is the traditional Aileron/Elevator design the best, and when the Elevon/Taileron design?

I know this might be slightly off topic, but from what I've read here in the last few days I thought this might be the best place to ask
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 05:50 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
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Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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CC,
This is my take on the subject. I will use a conventional single aileron servo and elevator servo when;
1. A single servo for the ailerons pushrods can reach the ailerons without having to sit at more than 45 degrees from the fuselage. This works for ailerons that can reach inboard to near the fuselage profile, and the hinge is either straight or swept forward. I almost never use a single aileron set on a swept back hinge line. The one exception is if I can use torque rods to get the controls inboard. The booms on the Vampire make dual ailerons easier than adding lots of wire hardware to get the controls inboard.
2. Elevators that can be actuated as a single unit will get a single servo. In some cases like the F-16 seperate elevators neccessitad dual servo, and that made it possible to fly as a taileron plane. F-22s seem to function well like this, but if I did the F-16 again I would use linked ailerons as well for better low speed roll response. I still may incorporate them and limit the through on the elevator.

Ken
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 08:39 AM
Gone Fly'n
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Great explanation Ken...if I might add...it also boils down to preference...I prefer elevons if the wing is swept enough that I can get the desired roll rate from them...example...my Su-37 rolls nicely with elevons alone where as my mig-29 rolls slowly and needs the ailerons linked to the elevons to get the desired roll rate...mainly at slow speeds doing high alpha maneuvering...you can use a traditional set up on any type of aircraft...straight or slant wing...the choice is yours
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 09:18 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planecrazy1969 View Post
Great explanation Ken...if I might add...it also boils down to preference...I prefer elevons if the wing is swept enough that I can get the desired roll rate from them...example...my Su-37 rolls nicely with elevons alone where as my mig-29 rolls slowly and needs the ailerons linked to the elevons to get the desired roll rate...mainly at slow speeds doing high alpha maneuvering
Regarding the Su-27, did you mean tailerons? I am understanding elevons to mean using the ailerons for elevator function as well. While your tailerons in the Mig-29 needed the addition of linked ailerons as well for effective roll control at low speed high alpha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planecrazy1969 View Post
you can use a traditional set up on any type of aircraft...straight or slant wing...the choice is yours
Were on the same page!

Ken
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