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Old Oct 09, 2012, 01:44 PM
I don't do Normal
Pinky_d_brain's Avatar
Canada, NT, Yellowknife
Joined Dec 2011
453 Posts
I will give it a shot
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 04:03 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,461 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgy View Post
How about Mig-21...

Now there's another 3 pages of elevon discussion LoL

George
The Mig 21 looks like a perfect PLF style model.

Pinky,
We are going with KFm2 wings which are not more than 2 layers. The KF panel generally runs from the leading edge to the 50% chord liine. These layers can extend into the horizontal laminations of the fuselage. The vertical laminations are usually not more than 3, and the placement is somewhat strategic, i.e. single layers at vertical fin, sometimes the dorsal line.

A VLF style model is usually 5-7 layers all stacked with vertical laminations. Internal channels and cavities built into the layers for wires servos and battery. These are usually more scale in appearance, but not as durable for combat as the PLF style.

You may design as you see fit. By trying to keep to design parameters any of the planes here will have similar construction and volume of material.

For the $tree foam users/designers, plan on using at least 2 sheets (20" x 30" = 600 sq. in. X 2 = 1200 sq.in.). One 24" X 48" sheet of foam is 1153 sq. in.

Ken
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 04:16 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,461 Posts
Vampire Construction Update:

Got the canopy, fuselage center and LH outer laminations glued up. Added 4 pics to this post http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=69

Ken
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 06:09 PM
Addicted to building...
Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
5,992 Posts
Ken,

The Vampire is coming along. So pretty in MPF, and it just can't be beat. Good luck on the finish and maiden. I'll be staying tuned!

Fred
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 09:31 PM
Gone Fly'n
planecrazy1969's Avatar
USA, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Jan 2007
288 Posts
Vampire is looking great Ken...can't wait to see this gem all painted up

Stace
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 06:21 AM
Danish? Don't U eat that??
DKChris's Avatar
Denmark
Joined Jan 2008
240 Posts
Went over my CG calculations again, as the just didn't make sense; this time I used the same tool for both calculations, by just adding nearly no tail area.

Would seem there are a few differences in the used calculation algorithms in the 2 calculator programs. The new data makes more sense.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 10:25 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,461 Posts
Updated Excel spredsheet. There are 39 jets in there and the wing area is populated now.

Ken
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 11:48 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,461 Posts
Vampire Construction Update:

Finished the fuselage laminations, built up the wing, and glued up the boom sub-assemblies. Dry fitted all sub-assemblies.

Should have some sanding completed by the end of the day. I'll show that in tomorrows update.

Added 4 more pics to this post http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=69

Ken
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 11:55 AM
Proud of Brushless Sprouts
Commander Clumsy's Avatar
Belgium, Flanders, Antwerp
Joined Feb 2007
327 Posts
re: The Elevons/Tailerons question

Thanks for answering everybody!
Things are beginning to dawn on me now
For this Playmobil glider I will choose Aileron&Elevator to stay on the safe side.



Please skip the following as it has nothing to do with SEMFF Combat Jets:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie B View Post
Nice looking plane BTW. Wish they had those here!
It should be available in the US, have a search on Amazon.com or playmobilusa.com, search for "Playmobil glider".
I have converted several "toy grade" airplanes like AirAce (Buzz/Phase3/Powerfly/Venom) and Silverlit into "real" RC, but I was always reluctant to take on the Multiplex Fox because of its nasty wing tip stalls.

The Playmobil Glider however seems to fly nice, found this video from a Dutch guy: youtube.com/watch?v=FPSnCkv28hc
28-11 9g motor
Em 4,3g servos
6a Plush ESC
2s 500mah
110 grams
He flew half throttle the whole time due to space restrictions.

I also found this video from a Frenchman with comparable setup in which it makes almost perfect rolls : youtube.com/watch?v=CpogZCdskCE
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 12:29 PM
Proud of Brushless Sprouts
Commander Clumsy's Avatar
Belgium, Flanders, Antwerp
Joined Feb 2007
327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb View Post
Updated Excel spredsheet. There are 39 jets in there and the wing area is populated now.

Ken
Almost nothing from the '80s and further on, nice to see it's all about the classics




Another straight winged trainer, the Hunting Percival/BAC Jet Provost?
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 01:49 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,461 Posts
Along similar lines is this Cessna T-37. Kinda like the squished look of it.

Ken

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Old Oct 10, 2012, 02:59 PM
I don't do Normal
Pinky_d_brain's Avatar
Canada, NT, Yellowknife
Joined Dec 2011
453 Posts
Well here is my try at the Mig-21
I have not placed any equipment or indicated CG if you guys can provide this info I will gladly add it to the plans. I put an optional KFm-1 on the tail thinking it may or may not help just an idea. Anyways please let me know if you see anything wacky or build it and find a problem.

updated plans on post#212
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 03:41 PM
Allways the hard way!
georgy's Avatar
South Africa, GP, Germiston
Joined Jan 2012
423 Posts
Pinky,

Not too shabby... done this before?

KFm for rear stab not required. I would put the wing KFm2 right to the tip...

George
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:42 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,461 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgy View Post
Pinky,

Not too shabby... done this before?

KFm for rear stab not required. I would put the wing KFm2 right to the tip...

George
Pinky,
I am with George. Looking pretty good.

If I may offer some constructive comments;
1. Dump the KF panel on the horizontal stabilizer. As George said, "not required". Move the stab down to where the KF panel is.
2. Run the KFm2 panel on the wing to the tip. This will make it less likely to tip stall. Current condition effectively adds washin to the tips.
3. A second horzontal lamination in front of the wing panel will make the nose more robust. This is especially important if you dork it on a less than perfect landing. Save you from snapping the nose.
4. If you refigure how its cut up, you could enlarge the scale and use more of the sheet.

I really like how you did the vertical laminations. This brings out details.

Thinking that a tractor mount motor with a prop adapter spinner nut could give the nose cone effect.

What CAD program are you using? Looks like .dwg format. I could post some components in that format for you to play with.

Overall I like its looks. Spank'in!
Ken
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:47 PM
Addicted to building...
Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
5,992 Posts
Pinky,

Thanks for the work on the MiG 21. Everyone varies, but adding a world drawing (one sheet) is my preferance. I like to see the parts all laid out without needing to tape tiles together. I also rarely use tiles as I would probably measure, multiply, mark, and cut. So much faster for me. You decide though. Thanks again.

Fred
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