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Old Sep 25, 2012, 11:30 AM
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How To Correct A Bad Habit - I'm not Not Using Rudder Control

I learned to fly RC not using rudder except on ground control in which I do fine and I don't have any left/right orientation problems. I have several electric motor airplanes that I'm successfully flying (without rudder control) including a twin engine 55" wingspan PBY float plane that I fly off a lake.

I know I could be a much better pilot if I learned to use coordinated rudder/aileron control.

How can I best approach this problem? One of my planes is a 57" wingspan Apprentice trainer, should I somehow rig this plane in a way that forces me to use rudder (only)? Should I maybe bind my Champ with my DX6i transmitter and set it up so rudder control is on the left stick only like it would be on an aileron/rudder transmitter setup and learn flying rudder only that way (Champ has no ailerons).

I honestly don't get much out of my Real Flight 5.5 simulator (the plane on the screen is always too small for my liking (I've tried all the adjustments to make it bigger).

Thank you!
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Last edited by itsme2; Sep 25, 2012 at 12:30 PM.
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 12:14 PM
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Really don't understand your questions. Leave the Champ as is, as it was meant to be flown with the rudder on the right. Then, stop thinking in terms of rudder and aileron, start thinking interms of the "right stick" changes direction. It doesn't matter what rolls/banks/turns the plane, what matters is that you remember that the right stick always changes direction. Witht he DX6i, it is possible to mix in some rudder with aileron movement. I have flying buddies that do this all the time. Experiment what rudder to aileron mix works best and use that. Most planes fly fine and roll/bank/turn using aileron throw only. I think you are making a mountain out of a very small mole hill. Coordinating turns with rudder and aileron will come as you progress in your flying skill.
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 12:49 PM
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In my opinion you need another plane. Get a 3D foamy and start playing, hovering,knife edgeing, etc. They need to be flown with rudder control and you will soon find yourself using rudder on your other planes. It worked for me, it might for you too.

Good excuse for another plane too.
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 12:57 PM
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Nothing wrong with NOT using rudder in sport flyiing. No need to coordinate rudder-aileron for turns, IMO. It just sounds good to the ear and makes one feel like an expert to coordinate turns, but models look clumsy and awkward with coordinated turns, again IMO. Perhaps some high wingers with lots of dihedral will turn better or easier especially in higher wind conditions, but no big deal with most airplane designs.

I use rudder to maintain runway alignment and or to counter torque induced yaw, on the take-off run. I never use aileron until the plane has lifted off. Once in the air, you can get by without rudder for 99% of sport flying.

Rudder can be used to slip slide unto the runway in severe crosswind landings, but ailerons can do most of the same depending on the type of plane.

You do need to use rudder for pattern aerobatics like stall turns, slow rolls, four point rolls, knife edge. In 3D, rudder is used even more, but that is really advanced aerobatics.
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 01:39 PM
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I've been under the impression high wing use rudder instead of aileron on take off and landing, low wing use aileron.

If you are flying just fine without touching rudder, I'd say it's not really a bad habit to not use it. Some planes only have AET are they bad habit inducing planes?
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 02:08 PM
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High wing trainers like the HZ Champ and Super Cub use rudder to initiate a turn while inflight since they are 3 channel and have no ailerons. Not all high wing planes use just rudder. My Flyzone Cessna 182 Skylane has ailerons. On my low wing planes, I use the rudder mainly for ground control, taxining and the like. I haven't used my rudder to turn my 4 channel planes. I might eventually, but not yet. Never had a problem so far.
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksolo69 View Post
Coordinating turns with rudder and aileron will come as you progress in your flying skill.
And, it isn't really necessary unless you're a stickler about making the airplane look right in the air. You can bank 'n yank all you want and the plane will be fine. The passengers will likely puke, but we don't care about them.

There are some maneuvers such as slipping and crabbing, which require rudder usage, but a basic turn around the field does not. If you decide you want to learn techniques like crabbing, the rudder usage will make sense when you learn that technique, as it's the only way to do it. For the most part, those techniques are not necessary to know, but can come in handy in some situations, if you can remember to use it - I often forget to crab in a crosswind, and with most planes it's perfectly fine, but I have one plane which will not land correctly if you don't (it will roll over and scrape the wing every time).

However, if you're not doing scale flying, use the rudder if you want to and if you don't, don't. I do instruct my students to use the rudder, but if they have already learned the bad habit, I don't push the issue. Having fun and flying safely takes precedence over correct scale flying technique.
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 05:03 PM
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Well to start with for coordinated flight it is as simple as moving the left stick side to side at the same time you move the right stick. When you are on the sim just make yourself move both sticks together. When you make that a habit then you can start watching the plane for signs of when you need more or less rudder, when you need to slip the plane or align with the runway in a crosswind etc.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 12:58 PM
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I have not seen my trainer or Fokker bipe benefit from using the rudder in turns. Some planes it doesn't really help while turning.

Using the rudder in addition to or instead of the ailerons on landing when low and slow can be very valuable, though.

I suggest trying some hammerheads and flying around in general using just the rudder to get a feel for it.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 12:58 PM
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I have not seen my trainer or Fokker bipe benefit from using the rudder in turns. Some planes it doesn't really help while turning.

Using the rudder in addition to or instead of the ailerons on landing when low and slow can be very valuable, though.

I suggest trying some hammerheads and flying around in general using just the rudder to get a feel for it.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 01:20 PM
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itsme: I find I'm a little 'lazy' on my rudder stick while sport flying too.

My solution is that, while flying planes I'm completely comfortable with already in "bank n yank" (aileron only) flying, I'm forcing myself to do more maneuvers that require rudder for execution (stall turns, hammerheads, barrel rolls, etc). Basically, just force yourself to use the rudder more; make even your basic pattern turns coordinated.

I'm tempted by the idea of buying an inexpensive profile pattern/3D plane. Playing with that for a while will really force the issue of rudder control, as it's entirely necessary for that style of flying.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 01:34 PM
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What worked for me for learning was to use my first 4 channel plane and practice making flat turns. I just did lots of figure 8's, practicing keeping the wings flat and keeping the plane at a constant altitude.

It really was good practice for mixing rudder and aileron.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 01:36 PM
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+1 on EPP 3Ds. I love my Crack Yak. You will learn rudder with something like that!
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 02:53 PM
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If you want to practice coordinated aileron and rudder, get on your sim and fly a helicopter.

Ignore the basic clever hovering etc, but get it moving forward and fly it like a fixed wing. You don't have any option but to use the 'rudder' with 'aileron', (please excuse the terminology any heli fliers).

Very good practice, and a load of fun.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 01:29 PM
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Learn to sideslip and you'll be flying and greasing landings when everyone else is sitting and watching.
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