SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:16 AM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,314 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik S. View Post
Less throttle, cause I have to do something quite different. It did pull away, just that it did a huge left roll at the same time. Of course I was giving full right aileron (at %60 rate).

When you launched friends did you THROW it or just release it, or where in between?
if u were using full rt. and it still rolled left, somethings wrong . don't take this wrong, but the surfaces are moving the correct way ? the torque affect is real but not that bad w/ this size prop. if the launch is straight and the controls are not reversed , i would look at the airframe closely for warps.

chuck.
chas650r is offline Find More Posts by chas650r
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 13, 2013, 02:20 PM
Registered User
USA, NC, Raleigh
Joined Nov 2007
71 Posts
The airframe looks great, the ELE and AIL as perfect as the eye can see. It's import to note that when I say FULL right, that is on reduced throws. I think I have little authority at low launch speeds because the surfaces don't deflrect much (like I want @80mph).

Going to try again soon. Fingers crossed.
Erik S. is offline Find More Posts by Erik S.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2013, 09:25 PM
Registered User
USA, NC, Raleigh
Joined Nov 2007
71 Posts
2nd and 3rd attempts

Fortunately ran into a pilot I respect a bunch and he checked over my setup. He suggested more throw (control surface movement) for takeoff. I suggested he throw for me.

We increased control authority, he threw, throttle bout %45, it flew about 30 ft and then wallowed left and crashed. He thought it looked like a stall, just about the time it had gone 30 feet I was thinking about increasing throttle but it happened so fast I don't know if I got to it.

One theory was slow speed and me adding lots of throttle = another torque roll, the other is a simple stall, neither is sure if I added throttle or not, this all took about 1.5 sec.

ROUND #3 The best and worst. %45 throttle on take off, after 1 sec i gently laid on throttle, it climbed like mad so I trimmed that out, flying about %60 throttle. This plane is FAST. I spent the whole time trying to get the plane back to me. I immediatlely thought how am I gonna land this thing as it's always so fast and so high. After about 15 passes something happened in a turn, maybe a stall, maybe i added too much throttle cause I was starting to 'play' with %70-80, everything was so fast I don't know, but now it's headed down so I take advantage and turn it into a landing. A rough landing. Broken fuselage, disconnected trays, tail sideways.

IN CONCLUSION: I'm not qualified to fly this plane and you need a real big field. I will put it back together and try again at a bigger field.

Thanks for yalls help. I do have two questions....if you're still reading.

1. Does this plane glide without stall? If I turn throttle off and let it naturally descend, shallow glide angle, will it stall? I would like to do this for landing.

2. Anyone using a "park" TX, or are we all using real range ones?
Erik S. is offline Find More Posts by Erik S.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2013, 09:59 PM
The Sequel
mustflynow2's Avatar
Australia, VIC
Joined Sep 2011
1,354 Posts
If your conlusion is that you are not ready for this plane my I suggest a fun fighter as a starter for some speed flying.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=20564

I have this one and it flys great I would think a lighter wing loading than the moray and from what I have seen of my friends moray, the rarebear is quicker on 4s. Auw is 370g. You can start on 3s too, in light conditions it is nimble and stable. In windy conditions it cuts through well. Off course which ever quick plane you fly the flying is dynamic and relentless at speed, but with a predetermined flight plan you know what to expect. You need to fly the plane, not play catch up and react to it. Good luck again.
1. Yep it will stall, a perfect landing would be as you said shallow glide with speed about a foot of the deck approaching a stall and easing it down. My friend nailed a couple on the weekend.
He also flew a bit far away for my liking but his eyes are younger than mine. And that is the nature of the beast, I think it got away from him once.
2. I use hitec with full range gear.
mustflynow2 is offline Find More Posts by mustflynow2
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:48 AM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,314 Posts
well eric i give u a "A" for perception! planes of this speed and wingloading can be a bit of a step and hearing somebody fess up and not blame the radio or the plane is refreshing. imo i'm not so sure a fun fighter is a good idea either mostly due to size, they get small quick. great airframes , dont get me wrong , maybe not easier too fly though. the big deal w/ any of the faster planes is your flying has to be instinctual , if any thinking is taking place it's over. and as u said u must have the room to relax for a sec or 2 and not lose the thing.

keep trying ,

chuck.
chas650r is offline Find More Posts by chas650r
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 01:14 AM
The Sequel
mustflynow2's Avatar
Australia, VIC
Joined Sep 2011
1,354 Posts
Its definately a tricky thing, cos i'd hate to put someone off or give them the wrong idea chuck. Would you have a suggestion for an intermediate plane or is it just more practice etc. i find on 3s the rarebear in still air is quite predictable and easy to launch at least. At first I suggest to people to fly straight up at wot and stall to get a feel for throttle run time, let it fall back level off and do it again, just so you are not flying a long way away. Sure you might lose orientation up high but as it comes down you pick it up again. Then some half throttle turns etc as you become more comfortable. Bright colors help me too.
Agree, well done Erik.,what else are you flying?
mustflynow2 is offline Find More Posts by mustflynow2
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 08:15 AM
Registered User
03svtsnakevert's Avatar
USA, TX, Copperas Cove
Joined Jul 2010
626 Posts
When I noted the best launches with the moray was more throttle on the launch
03svtsnakevert is offline Find More Posts by 03svtsnakevert
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:59 AM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,314 Posts
quote; Agree, well done Erik.,what else are you flying? quote.

ya , i think this is the best next question. it's hard to recommend w/o knowing skill level and hrs on the stick, just sounded like he might be a bit behind this one and i would hate to see him do the same on the fun fighter. i tell people , even though u seem to have a plane figured , fly it to death, because u are always learning. needing and wanting to step up is good , but can get ugly if u can't get the stick time out of it.

chuck.
chas650r is offline Find More Posts by chas650r
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:57 PM
Registered User
USA, NC, Raleigh
Joined Nov 2007
71 Posts
previous planes

got started with skyfly then
flyzone diablo, next with brushless
foamy mig 29 pusher
foam warbird f4u
siren hotliner, fast but only when you wanted fast
stevens aero adrenalin rush with a medusa motor and 3s, fast and small
foam with carbon spar DLG that always wants to flip upside down, sucked.

After these last two that took tons of time to build, and then i cried when crashed or never flew well I was looking for something like the moray. I'm now plug-N-fly.

I've never had the launch problems with these planes, like the moray, however the stevens was a handful at full throttle, but it could fly fairly slow. No problem.

All of the above planes are in the junk heap. Once I get decent with them I start to wonder, can I fly underneath the soccer goal? Can this plane fly in 15mph wind? Can I fly from the Holiday Inn parking lot? I wonder if I fly just above the roof of the gym..... They all flew well, but met their demise.

lately I've been flying a peaceful 2M powered glider. I put throttle on for 30 sec and then see how long I can fly. Nothing could be more different than the Moray.

Thanks for all your advice, I will report back my next round. And if you are a novice looking for more speed, listen to whatever these guys decide is a good intermediate plane cause the Moray is a handful, although a great plane if you can handle it.
Erik S. is offline Find More Posts by Erik S.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:20 AM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,314 Posts
so how many flights on the rush? it sounds like u might just need to get the right combination on the moray and u will be fine , as long as u dont try to see if u can break any world's records

chuck.
chas650r is offline Find More Posts by chas650r
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2013, 10:21 AM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2008
229 Posts
I have also "given up" on moray although I have been able to fly lots (30+) planes from giders to edfs without much effort.

I have also found out that the bigger the plane the better I am with them! and the moray is on the smaller range albeit close to my Radjet.

My experience with moray has never lasted more than 10 seconds but since it is not broken badly I was wondering:

Should I just install a flight stabilization box (orange one from HK) on JUST the aileron?

Since my problems are solely related to ailerons (even after I reduced throws down to 50%) I would assume this would help, or are there other unintended consequences in doing that?
fbitz777 is offline Find More Posts by fbitz777
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2013, 11:13 AM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,314 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbitz777 View Post
I have also "given up" on moray although I have been able to fly lots (30+) planes from giders to edfs without much effort.

I have also found out that the bigger the plane the better I am with them! and the moray is on the smaller range albeit close to my Radjet.

My experience with moray has never lasted more than 10 seconds but since it is not broken badly I was wondering:

Should I just install a flight stabilization box (orange one from HK) on JUST the aileron?

Since my problems are solely related to ailerons (even after I reduced throws down to 50%) I would assume this would help, or are there other unintended consequences in doing that?
although i rag about gyro's being included w/ some edf's now, at additional costs, that imo are not needed , this may be a way out of your troubles . just remember , if the control surfaces are unresponsive , the gyro cant fix anything. this should not be a problem as long as there is enough travel ect.

many have said that gyro's have helped them w/ launching small edf's that have no air over control surfaces until the plane is moving.

imo they ought to take the gyro's out and put them in a heli where they belong

chuck.
chas650r is offline Find More Posts by chas650r
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 12:37 PM
Registered User
Biel, Switzerland
Joined Aug 2006
72 Posts
I would have suggested the same. One could not better explain I think.

Either less power (perhaps something above center stick) or a smaller propeller. And/or you give a very little trim up on the right side. And there you will succeed and have fun (btw: me I never launch any of my [real] pylon racers with full throttle, there it is the same game). Good luck!






Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBillyFly View Post
Just watched Your Video...Here's what you need to do...take the up trim off your elevator...make sure the elevator is level on the launch....with up trim and a roll your doomed each time...if you have up trim even just a little....once your inverted..your then going down...other than giving it left throw and continue the roll to the up right position as well as some down trim...which will make it stop diving to a crash...What I saw was your attempt to recover...way too late....once it starts the roll..hit your Aileron on more left...which completes the roll very fast...I believe you were trying to resist the roll...

Your problem is too much throttle....Especially when there is No breeze ...You want just enough throttle that it wants to pull from your hand....in other words enough power that you think is enough to sustain flight....after you launch...and your flying...which will be slow...then throttle up slowly.....another trick is to compensate for your Power if your having a problem not knowing what speed is right for Launch is to put a bout 1/8" trim up on the right side..that will help sustain a level launch.....then prepare to trim it back to level after you gain some altitude..

You've got a light Plane..and too much power causing the torque roll...if you don't compensate...you'll continue the Bad Launches...

Your Launch attack is fine....I like to throw at the 11:00 angle..this gives me time to make up for torque when you've gone over recommended power setup for any bird..Hope this helps you...its a trick to learn when your over powering a bird...You can do it...
If you can't ...then you should downsize your Propeller...Bottom line...your torque'in..gotta make up for that force..
Billy
mokabo123 is offline Find More Posts by mokabo123
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2013, 12:45 AM
cant leave things stock
jstoll's Avatar
United States, KY, Lexington
Joined Feb 2007
1,464 Posts
hey there
I maidened mine today and crashed... too much up elevator climbed out niceley with stick all the way forward and when I powered down to nose it over it tip stalled and spiraled in ... broke the fuse in half :-( I glued it all back together and had two more great flights with it :-) I love it

the commands for setting up the speed controller are the same as the turnegy plush with the radio
I was flying on 3S 2200 today but have 4S 2200 nano techs on the way 45C and have a few props coming to try out.
after the first crash today used a 7X5 I had which was slow on 3S but the plane is super stable and well built
nice to see allot of folks checking this plane out I figured it was a good step before a fiberglass pilon after many fast wings and some fun fighters
have a great weekend
JAK
edit I launch my Moray the same way I launch my HK rarebear and that is almost vertical.... and just get height.... on 3S I was at WOT... on 4S maybe 3/4 throttle and if its going strait up it dosent matter if it rolls or not
I was watching in the video where the guy launched very horisontal and he just threw it really hard.... it will just fly out of your hand almost vertical
also when I was starting to fly I built planes which were way way too much for me and crashed and wasted so much time and money.... if I were to do it all over Id start with way more tame planes and work my way up
jstoll is offline Find More Posts by jstoll
Last edited by jstoll; Jan 20, 2013 at 12:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2013, 12:28 PM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,314 Posts
+1 on the vert launch!!! anything i have that has enough power is launched this way, and i have tried to get others here on rcg to do the same , most likely w/ little success. seems scary ,but it's all about getting altitude. as u said a roll is just a roll going straight up

chuck.
chas650r is offline Find More Posts by chas650r
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale NIB Dago Red Sport Pylon bevers01 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 2 Aug 21, 2012 03:06 PM
Question sport, pylon, f3a.. what are all the catagories and what do they mean? flybybob Beginner Training Area (Fuel) 3 Jun 30, 2012 11:10 PM
New Product JCX-M6 Flight Controller for RC Airplane RC Model Plane FPV Fixed-wing Airplane wenney2009 FPV Talk 3 Jun 19, 2012 06:10 AM
Sold Fantrainer Sport Scale RC Ducted Fan Jet Airplane Plans junieb Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 0 Jun 04, 2007 07:44 AM