Welcome back Tic

Keep the faith.

The old debate..."Generation Gap"...old vs. new. I don't have a problem with half airplanes (yet), it's those damned GEESE get me down. But, I DO realise they were there before I was, so there ya go I guess. Why are some of them called "Pop Wings" anyway? Do they "pop"? Break Mach 1, and instead of a boom, they pop? I dunno, they look like a lot of fun, but I want a camera platform...

Originally Posted by matiac

The old debate..."Generation Gap"...old vs. new.

I don't think that's the issue at all. I may not be in the first flush of youth anymore but the 3D models I fly are very much the latest thing. Guys fly the 'latest craze' quad rotor helis as the same field and I've no issue with those whatsoever, they look like fun and don't bother anyone. It's purely the ear splitting noise of the Zagi that concerns me when used on flying sites that are noise sensitive. On fields that don't have noise control issues then no problem.

Full size or models. Extremly high speed props are annoying & a pain.

They tried to run full sized military props at & above Mach 1.....EVERYBODY on the ground was sick from the noise & pressure levels.

Hey now,
God to silence a pushed style 'wing?
Move the motor to the nose! Instant quiet and much better thrust levels too because you're getting cleaner air.
Also 'wings can be nifty things if flown responsably. I like them as well as canards and other non standard models.
Remember The Wing Is The Thing. Or TWITT!
Tails just cause unneeded drag. The only reason you need one is because the plane was unbalanced to begin with. The wing is not really the trouble here though. It's the pusher set up and the survivability of EPP. Ban EPP pushers!
RobII

Man what a coincidence, I went to a swap meet yesterday and someone had 2 zagi's they were peddling as vintage kits. Now tic is back. I thought someone dredged up one of those 3000 day old threads.

I'd write tic in for President but that would be beneath his status.

PULL YOUR PANTS UP, ZAGI PILOTS!!

mw

Originally Posted by tic

These ridiculous looking obnoxious "airplanes" should be banned. I believe the loud pusher props on these things and their unusual appearance have contributed to the closure of many flying areas. Gone are the days when a grandfather can walk with his grandson in a park and point to a radio controlled Piper Cub flying gracefully in the sky, introduce the boy to the friendly pilot and learn some history in the process. Instead? the same granfather/grandson team is assaulted by a high speed wing flown by some punk who spits on the ground and chases dogs (or children) with his toy. This is part of what's wrong with our country. Please help eliminate the rude people from this hobby, it's better for everyone to shun these renegade "pilots"

We were just talking about you yesterday, tic.... I was flying my TL-60 60-inch flying wing. It was so loud, that when I let off the power, you can hear it echo off the surrounding landscape for several seconds.

Welcome back, we missed you!

Originally Posted by Mike_Then

We were just talking about you yesterday, tic.... I was flying my TL-60 60-inch flying wing. It was so loud, that when I let off the power, you can hear it echo off the surrounding landscape for several seconds.

Which is perfectly ok if you fly in the middle of nowhere and don't bother anyone. Flying that model in a park or sports field with nearby housing would be a sure fire recipe for the RC flyers to be banned from the site, which (I think) was the point being made.

Originally Posted by elfwreck

Hey now,
God to silence a pushed style 'wing?
Move the motor to the nose! Instant quiet and much better thrust levels too because you're getting cleaner air.
Also 'wings can be nifty things if flown responsably. I like them as well as canards and other non standard models.
Remember The Wing Is The Thing. Or TWITT!
Tails just cause unneeded drag. The only reason you need one is because the plane was unbalanced to begin with. The wing is not really the trouble here though. It's the pusher set up and the survivability of EPP. Ban EPP pushers!
RobII

Actually, moving the motor and prop to the nose of a flying wing somewhat destablizes the wing and can lead to the need for larger vertical tails. Having the prop disc at the back has a stablizing effect on tailless models.

Simply increasing the space between the prop and the trailing edge of the wing can reduce to noise levels to no more than that of a normal tractor sport model with the same high Kv motor and small prop.

My HK Me-163 with the 4" prop and the stock 4000 Kv motor on 3s and 4s is a loud screamer....with the motor in the nose.....

Originally Posted by Thomas B

Actually, moving the motor and prop to the nose of a flying wing somewhat destablizes the wing and can lead to the need for larger vertical tails. Having the prop disc at the back has a stablizing effect on tailless models.

The stabilising effect of a pusher is very true but relying on the pusher prop effect to make your plane stable is a dangerous game, because it only works when you have power on
But I agree totally that putting the prop on the nose will de-stabilise the plane potentially requiring more vertical stab area and a more forward CG.

Originally Posted by tic

These ridiculous looking obnoxious "airplanes" should be banned. I believe the loud pusher props on these things and their unusual appearance have contributed to the closure of many flying areas. Gone are the days when a grandfather can walk with his grandson in a park and point to a radio controlled Piper Cub flying gracefully in the sky, introduce the boy to the friendly pilot and learn some history in the process. Instead? the same granfather/grandson team is assaulted by a high speed wing flown by some punk who spits on the ground and chases dogs (or children) with his toy. This is part of what's wrong with our country. Please help eliminate the rude people from this hobby, it's better for everyone to shun these renegade "pilots"

AMEN, Tic! Welcome back!

A few weeks ago I went out to NJ for vacation, and on the way back I decided to take the long way through Chambersburg to take Rt 30 over the mountains.

I think I found your house - there was this Anti-Zagi Defense System sitting in the front

I'm glad you're back, and back in style!

Andy

I have many unpowered slope pylon racing wings and love em, but have to agree with the original poster - the combination of the pusher config and EPP swept wing is a nightmare on the ears.

Originally Posted by elfwreck

Remember The Wing Is The Thing. Or TWITT!
Tails just cause unneeded drag. The only reason you need one is because the plane was unbalanced to begin with.

Err, no, not really - if that were the case the majority of modern airliners, sailplanes and military aircraft would be tailless, but they aren't. Why? Wings are less efficient across the vast majority of the flight envelope, and planks (the most efficient flying type of flying wing at the low airspeeds our models operate at) are much more CG sensitive than conventional configurations. Sure, wings have the edge in terms of simplicity and robustness (at least at model sizes), but lets not kid ourselves that there are any real world aerodynamic advantages - there aren't.

Originally Posted by MattyB

... but lets not kid ourselves that there are any aerodynamic advantages.

+1
If they were more efficient the sky would be full of them. When was the last time you saw a full size flying wing in flight? For every one you do see I'll show you 1000 conventional tailed aircraft. Do you think 99.9% of airplane designers got it wrong?

I actually really like tailless planes (noise issues aside), but don't kid yourself that they are more efficient.

Steve

Tell that to the Horten Bros. They were so far ahead of everybody. They even had a flying wing design with sharp blades on the leading edge for taking out allied bombers. Where do you think those Zagi gangs who have been running wild across the country got the idea?