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Old Sep 23, 2012, 04:31 AM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,588 Posts
Welcome back Tic

Keep the faith.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 04:35 AM
AMA 994002
matiac's Avatar
United States, RI, Westerly
Joined May 2012
1,050 Posts
The old debate..."Generation Gap"...old vs. new. I don't have a problem with half airplanes (yet), it's those damned GEESE get me down. But, I DO realise they were there before I was, so there ya go I guess. Why are some of them called "Pop Wings" anyway? Do they "pop"? Break Mach 1, and instead of a boom, they pop? I dunno, they look like a lot of fun, but I want a camera platform...
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 07:58 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
11,629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by matiac View Post
The old debate..."Generation Gap"...old vs. new.
I don't think that's the issue at all. I may not be in the first flush of youth anymore but the 3D models I fly are very much the latest thing. Guys fly the 'latest craze' quad rotor helis as the same field and I've no issue with those whatsoever, they look like fun and don't bother anyone. It's purely the ear splitting noise of the Zagi that concerns me when used on flying sites that are noise sensitive. On fields that don't have noise control issues then no problem.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 09:50 AM
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United States, NJ, Frenchtown
Joined Mar 2003
9,112 Posts
Full size or models. Extremly high speed props are annoying & a pain.

They tried to run full sized military props at & above Mach 1.....EVERYBODY on the ground was sick from the noise & pressure levels.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 10:02 AM
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elfwreck's Avatar
United States, CA, Oakland
Joined Dec 2002
2,333 Posts
Hey now,
God to silence a pushed style 'wing?
Move the motor to the nose! Instant quiet and much better thrust levels too because you're getting cleaner air.
Also 'wings can be nifty things if flown responsably. I like them as well as canards and other non standard models.
Remember The Wing Is The Thing. Or TWITT!
Tails just cause unneeded drag. The only reason you need one is because the plane was unbalanced to begin with. The wing is not really the trouble here though. It's the pusher set up and the survivability of EPP. Ban EPP pushers!
RobII
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 10:05 AM
Registered User
Aurora Municipal, Illinois, United States
Joined Jul 2002
1,578 Posts
Man what a coincidence, I went to a swap meet yesterday and someone had 2 zagi's they were peddling as vintage kits. Now tic is back. I thought someone dredged up one of those 3000 day old threads.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 10:07 AM
characters welcome!
Mark Wood's Avatar
United States, CA, Bear Valley Springs
Joined Feb 2000
26,346 Posts
I'd write tic in for President but that would be beneath his status.

PULL YOUR PANTS UP, ZAGI PILOTS!!

mw
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 10:13 AM
I hate waiting for parts
Mike_Then's Avatar
United States, NC, Garner
Joined Apr 2001
6,735 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tic View Post
These ridiculous looking obnoxious "airplanes" should be banned. I believe the loud pusher props on these things and their unusual appearance have contributed to the closure of many flying areas. Gone are the days when a grandfather can walk with his grandson in a park and point to a radio controlled Piper Cub flying gracefully in the sky, introduce the boy to the friendly pilot and learn some history in the process. Instead? the same granfather/grandson team is assaulted by a high speed wing flown by some punk who spits on the ground and chases dogs (or children) with his toy. This is part of what's wrong with our country. Please help eliminate the rude people from this hobby, it's better for everyone to shun these renegade "pilots"
We were just talking about you yesterday, tic.... I was flying my TL-60 60-inch flying wing. It was so loud, that when I let off the power, you can hear it echo off the surrounding landscape for several seconds.

Welcome back, we missed you!
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 12:00 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
11,629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
We were just talking about you yesterday, tic.... I was flying my TL-60 60-inch flying wing. It was so loud, that when I let off the power, you can hear it echo off the surrounding landscape for several seconds.
Which is perfectly ok if you fly in the middle of nowhere and don't bother anyone. Flying that model in a park or sports field with nearby housing would be a sure fire recipe for the RC flyers to be banned from the site, which (I think) was the point being made.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 12:16 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,515 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfwreck View Post
Hey now,
God to silence a pushed style 'wing?
Move the motor to the nose! Instant quiet and much better thrust levels too because you're getting cleaner air.
Also 'wings can be nifty things if flown responsably. I like them as well as canards and other non standard models.
Remember The Wing Is The Thing. Or TWITT!
Tails just cause unneeded drag. The only reason you need one is because the plane was unbalanced to begin with. The wing is not really the trouble here though. It's the pusher set up and the survivability of EPP. Ban EPP pushers!
RobII
Actually, moving the motor and prop to the nose of a flying wing somewhat destablizes the wing and can lead to the need for larger vertical tails. Having the prop disc at the back has a stablizing effect on tailless models.

Simply increasing the space between the prop and the trailing edge of the wing can reduce to noise levels to no more than that of a normal tractor sport model with the same high Kv motor and small prop.

My HK Me-163 with the 4" prop and the stock 4000 Kv motor on 3s and 4s is a loud screamer....with the motor in the nose.....
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 12:35 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
11,629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
Actually, moving the motor and prop to the nose of a flying wing somewhat destablizes the wing and can lead to the need for larger vertical tails. Having the prop disc at the back has a stablizing effect on tailless models.
The stabilising effect of a pusher is very true but relying on the pusher prop effect to make your plane stable is a dangerous game, because it only works when you have power on
But I agree totally that putting the prop on the nose will de-stabilise the plane potentially requiring more vertical stab area and a more forward CG.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 01:09 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
23,512 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tic View Post
These ridiculous looking obnoxious "airplanes" should be banned. I believe the loud pusher props on these things and their unusual appearance have contributed to the closure of many flying areas. Gone are the days when a grandfather can walk with his grandson in a park and point to a radio controlled Piper Cub flying gracefully in the sky, introduce the boy to the friendly pilot and learn some history in the process. Instead? the same granfather/grandson team is assaulted by a high speed wing flown by some punk who spits on the ground and chases dogs (or children) with his toy. This is part of what's wrong with our country. Please help eliminate the rude people from this hobby, it's better for everyone to shun these renegade "pilots"
AMEN, Tic! Welcome back!

A few weeks ago I went out to NJ for vacation, and on the way back I decided to take the long way through Chambersburg to take Rt 30 over the mountains.

I think I found your house - there was this Anti-Zagi Defense System sitting in the front

I'm glad you're back, and back in style!

Andy
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 01:46 PM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Hitchin
Joined Jan 2004
3,728 Posts
I have many unpowered slope pylon racing wings and love em, but have to agree with the original poster - the combination of the pusher config and EPP swept wing is a nightmare on the ears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfwreck View Post
Remember The Wing Is The Thing. Or TWITT!
Tails just cause unneeded drag. The only reason you need one is because the plane was unbalanced to begin with.
Err, no, not really - if that were the case the majority of modern airliners, sailplanes and military aircraft would be tailless, but they aren't. Why? Wings are less efficient across the vast majority of the flight envelope, and planks (the most efficient flying type of flying wing at the low airspeeds our models operate at) are much more CG sensitive than conventional configurations. Sure, wings have the edge in terms of simplicity and robustness (at least at model sizes), but lets not kid ourselves that there are any real world aerodynamic advantages - there aren't.
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Last edited by MattyB; Sep 24, 2012 at 07:16 AM.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 01:53 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
11,629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyB View Post
... but lets not kid ourselves that there are any aerodynamic advantages.
+1
If they were more efficient the sky would be full of them. When was the last time you saw a full size flying wing in flight? For every one you do see I'll show you 1000 conventional tailed aircraft. Do you think 99.9% of airplane designers got it wrong?

I actually really like tailless planes (noise issues aside), but don't kid yourself that they are more efficient.

Steve
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 02:03 PM
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Joined Aug 2003
2,631 Posts
Tell that to the Horten Bros. They were so far ahead of everybody. They even had a flying wing design with sharp blades on the leading edge for taking out allied bombers. Where do you think those Zagi gangs who have been running wild across the country got the idea?
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