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Old Jan 05, 2013, 10:00 PM
K Kakuta
Kazu-kaku's Avatar
Joined Aug 2006
1,164 Posts
SeaGull 24iV-4 with Articulated wings: Test Flight and Test Gliding

SeaGull 24iV-4 with Articulated wings: Test Flight and Test Gliding (7 min 37 sec)


SeaGull 24iV-4 with Articulated wings
Test Flight and Test Gliding in wind 4-6 meter / second.
I remade wings to articulated wings.
This system is the same as a system of Goshawk25iV.
Flapping motion is Good.
A thrust is not yet enough a little.

Wing membrane : New Orcofilm EN-158C and OrconFilm AN36.
SeaGull24iV has wings with airfoil.
width 103 cm length 51 cm weight 135 g battery Lipo 2cell 240mAh 18g Total flight weight 153g
Receiver: Corona 4Ch Single Conv. Rx 72MHz
Servo: Vtail: elevator & rudder (DM 4.7g servo *2)
Motor:Turnigy 1811 Brushless Indoor Motor 3800kv
ESC:H-KING 10A Fixed Wing Brushless Speed Controller
Gear:Main gear: 66TM0.4 Acetal GWS EPS D*2 (Stainless shaft3mm, 3mm ball bearing), First gear: 56TM0.4 GWS EPS 2 (=GWS IPS-42), 64P8TPinionWire(with 4mm ball bearing), Pinion Gear M0410T
Battery:Lipo 2cell 240mAh G3
Film of a wing New Orcofilm EN-158C and AN36
Control: 3CH (a motor, inverted Vtail: 2 servo
Gliding system New GLDAB
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 12:23 AM
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Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0xASDItvD4

SeaGull 24iV-4 with Articulated wings
Test Flight and Test Gliding in wind 4-6 meter / second.
I remade wings to articulated wings.
This system is the same as a system of Goshawk25iV.
Flapping motion is Good.
A thrust is not yet enough a little.

Wing membrane : New Orcofilm EN-158C and OrconFilm AN36.
SeaGull24iV has wings with airfoil.
width 103 cm length 51 cm weight 135 g battery Lipo 2cell 240mAh 18g Total flight weight 153g
Receiver: Corona 4Ch Single Conv. Rx 72MHz
Servo: Vtail: elevator & rudder (DM 4.7g servo *2)
Motor:Turnigy 1811 Brushless Indoor Motor 3800kv
ESC:H-KING 10A Fixed Wing Brushless Speed Controller
Gear:Main gear: 66TM0.4 Acetal GWS EPS D*2 (Stainless shaft3mm, 3mm ball bearing), First gear: 56TM0.4 GWS EPS 2 (=GWS IPS-42), 64P8TPinionWire(with 4mm ball bearing), Pinion Gear M0410T
Battery:Lipo 2cell 240mAh G3
Film of a wing New Orcofilm EN-158C and AN36
Control: 3CH (a motor, inverted Vtail: 2 servo
Gliding system New GLDAB
Very well flying bird Doctor but IMO GosHawk25iV flies at least a bit better.
Are the temperatures of the motor and ESC is lower now since you have increased reduction ratio to 46.2 for this bird and 51.33 for the GosHawk25iV when compared to Kestrel 17-1 where reduction ratio is only 32 and the motor and battery are the same?
Have you thought about using pull- pull system for actuating outer portion of the wings instead of push- pull system used originally by Kjell and you.?
There are some advantages which you probably will consider by yourself.
Here is an example for such a mechanism which uses pull-pull system although it resembles more closely Festo's motions than Kjell's and yours but easily can be transformed in simpler one and to imitate your kind of motions.Tomorrow I will post a sketch of such a mechanism.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 01:48 AM
K Kakuta
Kazu-kaku's Avatar
Joined Aug 2006
1,164 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
Very well flying bird Doctor but IMO GosHawk25iV flies at least a bit better.
Are the temperatures of the motor and ESC is lower now since you have increased reduction ratio to 46.2 for this bird and 51.33 for the GosHawk25iV when compared to Kestrel 17-1 where reduction ratio is only 32 and the motor and battery are the same?
Have you thought about using pull- pull system for actuating outer portion of the wings instead of push- pull system used originally by Kjell and you.?
There are some advantages which you probably will consider by yourself.
Here is an example for such a mechanism which uses pull-pull system although it resembles more closely Festo's motions than Kjell's and yours but easily can be transformed in simpler one and to imitate your kind of motions.Tomorrow I will post a sketch of such a mechanism.
Motor, ESC(Hobbyking10A or Thunderbird 9A), Battery is same one in Goshawk25iV, Seagull24iv, NightFuryBaby23iV, FalcoHobby22iV.
My system consists of three following main point. Pull of wing by pianoline(Upnward), push with spring effect by pianoline and limit of wings turning to upper by carbon plate(Downward).
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Last edited by Kazu-kaku; Jan 07, 2013 at 07:30 PM.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 10:48 AM
Blue Falcon
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Joined Jan 2007
713 Posts
Very very nice gull Kazu, she flies really organic. I did very enjoy your video.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 04:13 PM
K Kakuta
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Joined Aug 2006
1,164 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefalconhollan View Post
Very very nice gull Kazu, she flies really organic. I did very enjoy your video.
Thank you.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 02:56 AM
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Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
GosHawk25iV with articulated wing


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atk0UYZ82z0

So that the 0.8mm piano wire which I use in order to bend wings sags, I tied 1.4mm carbon rod beside piano wire.
By this sagging down of piano wire disappeared.
The wings came to turn well and thrusts increased.

A side to the body of this wings has Airfoil.
Width 94cm
Length 49cm
Weight 128g
battery Lipo 2cell 240mAh17g
Total flight weight 145g

Receiver: Castle Creations Berg Microstamp 4L 4Ch Micro Rx FM
cryistal: Castle Creations Micro Crystal Berg (72MHz)
Servo: Vtail: elevator & rudder (DM 4.7g servo *2)
Motor: Turnigy 1811 Brushless Indoor Motor 3800kv
ESC: H-KING 10A Fixed Wing BrushlessESC
Gear: Main gear: 66TM0.4 Acetal GWS EPS D (Stainless shaft3mm, 3mm ball bearing), First gear: 56TM0.4 GWS EPS 2 (=GWS IPS-42), 64P8TPinionWire(with 4mm ball bearing), Pinion Gear M04 10T(=64P 10T)
Battery: Lipo 2cell 240mAh G3
Film of a wing Orcon filmAN36
Control: 3CH (a motor, inverted Vtail: 2 servo)
Gliding system New GLDAB
Hi Doctor,
I am interested what is the average flight duration for this bird with 240 mA/h battery?
For you and for others interested I found this one:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
The same weight but 300 mA/h and 35-70 C.Probably there is even lighter version when C rating is lower
Also I want to ask you about the bore of the 56T spur gear: Du you drill it to 4mm because i can't see GWS 56 T M 0.4 gear with 4mm bore?
And the last question: is it the same servo you have used? http://www.peak-hobby.com/main/home/...cpath=&catid=0

Thanks in advance!

Otto
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:54 AM
K Kakuta
Kazu-kaku's Avatar
Joined Aug 2006
1,164 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
Hi Doctor,
I am interested what is the average flight duration for this bird with 240 mA/h battery?
For you and for others interested I found this one:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
The same weight but 300 mA/h and 35-70 C.Probably there is even lighter version when C rating is lower
Also I want to ask you about the bore of the 56T spur gear: Du you drill it to 4mm because i can't see GWS 56 T M 0.4 gear with 4mm bore?
And the last question: is it the same servo you have used? http://www.peak-hobby.com/main/home/...cpath=&catid=0

Thanks in advance!

Otto
I enlarge a hole of 3mm of GWS 56 T M 0.4 gear with 3.5mm drill.
I spread the hole by a trimmer.
I push 64P8T PinionWire into the hole.
And I fix it by superglue.

Turnigy nano-tech 300mah 2S 35~70C Lipo Pack (US Warehouse) is better.
DM 4.7G Micro Servo is the same as servo which I used.
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Last edited by Kazu-kaku; Jan 11, 2013 at 04:02 AM.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
I enlarge a hole of 3mm of GWS 56 T M 0.4 gear with 3.5mm drill.
I spread the hole by a trimmer.
I push 64P8T PinionWire into the hole.


Turnigy nano-tech 300mah 2S 35~70C Lipo Pack (US Warehouse) is better.
DM 4.7G Micro Servo is the same as servo which I used.
Thanks Doctor, What about the flight duration with present battery 240mA/h?
Do you secure pinion rod to spur gear bore additionally except of press fitting?
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Last edited by seagull10; Jan 11, 2013 at 04:22 AM.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:21 AM
K Kakuta
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Joined Aug 2006
1,164 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
Thanks Doctor, What about the flight duration with present battery 240mA/h?
Do you secure pinion rod to spur gear bore additionally instead of press fitting?
Because I am testing it now, I do not yet measure flight hours.
Now it flies testly for about three minutes by G3 240mAh battery.
I push Pinionwire to hole of gear by hand.
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Last edited by Kazu-kaku; Jan 12, 2013 at 02:29 AM.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
Because I test it, I do not yet measure flight hours.
Now it flies testly for about three minutes by G3 240mAh battery.
I push Pinionwire to hole of gear by hand.
OK Doctor thanks a lot !
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 04:37 PM
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Joined Nov 2011
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Articulated wing mechanism

Hello,

I've been following your thread on articulated wing mechanisms and thought I'd post a couple of images (sorry of low quality) of my rubber powered articulated wing orthithopter project.

It's about 1meter span based on a gull. It is made from balsa and bamboo and each gear will be powered by a seperate rubber loop. Inner wing parts will have an aerofoil section from polystyrene and the outer section will be covered with a thin plastic film or similar. Wing hinges are angled to encourage forward movement on the downstroke and rearward movement on the upstroke. Gears can be sychronised to enable a number of different flapping and articulation actions. Pictures and links below.

Thanks

Ornithopter articulated wing mechanism_2.AVI (0 min 21 sec)


Ornithopter articulated wing mechanism_1.AVI (0 min 11 sec)
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 05:10 PM
K Kakuta
Kazu-kaku's Avatar
Joined Aug 2006
1,164 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iky_Alvin View Post
Hello,

I've been following your thread on articulated wing mechanisms and thought I'd post a couple of images (sorry of low quality) of my rubber powered articulated wing orthithopter project.

It's about 1meter span based on a gull. It is made from balsa and bamboo and each gear will be powered by a seperate rubber loop. Inner wing have an aerofoil section from polystyrene and outer section from a thin plastic film or similar. Wing hinges are angled to encourage forward movement on the downstroke and rearward movement on the upstroke. Gears can be sychronised to enable a number of different flapping and articulation actions. Pictures and links below.

Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7vfGyKMoDk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u21reFiGWU
I show respect to your effort and idea.
Are two gears of the top necessary?
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 05:42 PM
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Joined Nov 2011
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Hello Kazu-Kaku. Thank you for your reply - your swift ornithopter was the first model that inspired me to start development, so I am pleased to correspond with you. I began developing the 'four' gear mechanism in the picture more than 2 years ago, but I progress very slowly. I first made a test version of the mechanism before I saw the Festo Smart Bird and the other articulated wing models. When I saw your developments, I was pleased to see that other people were also working on complimentary and probably better designs. My intention when I made the design was to be able to use as much of the energy from rubber as possible, without having flat/dead spots in the rotating action. Each loop of elastic that powers the mechanism will be wound so that the torque from the rubber will counteract and be balanced along the body of the ornithopter. In terms of the need for the upper pair of gears - I agree, generally I'm not sure the mechanism offers any particular advantage over other designs. However, I think there may be some benefit for my rubber powered free flight model in terms of harnessing the power from several loops of rubber that may be required to make it fly. I have some more work to do to finish the model, but hopefully I will be able to demostrate a flight in the future!
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Last edited by Iky_Alvin; Jan 13, 2013 at 05:56 PM.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:32 PM
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Joined May 2011
691 Posts
Hi Iky_Alvin and welcome here!

You are on the right track . 4 gears design allows much proper phasing between inside and outside parts of the wings than Festo's design .
Probably it will be interesting for you to check the following Kinkade's design which IMO is based on the same philosophy as yours: two front gears crank pins control outer portions of the wings when two rear gears crank pins control inside portions of the wings . Front to rear gears pairs are meshed out of phase around 90 degree regarding their crank pins.The wrist hinge axle isn't parallel to the shoulder's hinge axle as well which as you mentioned move outer portion of the wings forward on down stroke and backward on upstroke like birds do.
When looking on your design I wold like to make a suggestion: If you swap the shoulder hinge and upper head conrod fastening points the directions of forces' vectors between crank pins and main wing spars will be much better . If you decide to follow my advise you will have to move the the crank pins of the axillary spars gears on 180 degree, on the same diametrical lines but to the another side of the axillary gears bores just to keep the same kinematics' logic.
As Festo, Hiroki and Kakuta shows us with their last ornithopters (and especially with Kakutas' phasing of the wings beatings) active articulation keep the air flow from spilling to the outside and force the air under inner parts of the wings ,body and tail which results in more lifting force on down stroke .In the same time on the up stroke bended downwards other portions of the wings still produce thrust but the accompanying negative lift force is pointed not straight against the lifting force produced from inside parts of the wings and the result is bigger net lift as well and lower flapping frequency demand .

Good job ,thanks for posting and please make a video with all the mechanism and wings movement kept in one frame.
And success as well!
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 02:29 AM
K Kakuta
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Joined Aug 2006
1,164 Posts
Bat18-4 with Articulated wing and Bat 18-3 only swing legs: First Flight test

A difference of two ornithopters is only Articulated wing and length, pinion Gear.

Bat 18-4 with articulated wings and swing legs: First Flight test
Bat 18-4 with articulated wings and swing legs: First Flight test (3 min 43 sec)

Control system is modified swing steering system for membrane flapping wing by Takahasi. Maneuvering is not good yet.
width 101cm
length 38cm
weight97g
battery Lipo 2cell 240mAh 14g
Total flight weight111g
Receiver: OrangeRx R415 Spektrum DSM2 Compatible 4Ch Micro 2.4Ghz Receiver
Servo: DM 4.7g servo *2
Motor:Turnigy 1811 Brushless Indoor Motor 3800kv
Gear: "Main Gear 0.4M 66T*2& 3mm ballbearingSpur Gear (M0.4 x 58T), 64P8TPinionWire(4mm ball bearing),Pinion Gear M04 10T(64P 10T)"
ESC:H-KING 10A Fixed Wing Brushless Speed Controller
Battery:Lipo2cell180mAh G3
Control: 3CH (a motor, Rudder and Elevator servo)
Film of a wing:Orcon film

Bat 18-3 Swing legs: First Flight test
Bat 18-3 Swing legs: First Flight test (2 min 44 sec)

Control system is modified swing steering system for membrane flapping wing by Takahasi. Maneuvering is good. It flies lightly. 
width 101cm
length 33cm
weight87g
battery Lipo 2cell 240mAh 14g
Total flight weight101g
Receiver: OrangeRx R415 Spektrum DSM2 Compatible 4Ch Micro 2.4Ghz Receiver
Servo: DM 4.7g servo *2
Motor:Turnigy 1811 Brushless Indoor Motor 3800kv
Gear: "Main Gear 0.4M 66T*2& 3mm ballbearingSpur Gear (M0.4 x 58T), 64P8TPinionWire(4mm ball bearing),Pinion Gear M04 12T(64P 12T)"
ESC:H-KING 10A Fixed Wing Brushless Speed Controller
Battery:Lipo2cell180mAh G3
Control: 3CH (a motor, Rudder and Elevator servo)
Film of a wing:Orcon film
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Last edited by Kazu-kaku; Jan 14, 2013 at 03:03 AM.
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