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Old Feb 17, 2013, 06:09 AM
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Indonesia, East Java, Malang
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
I think so, too. Try it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arun.sreelakam View Post
Wow this looks good why it failed..? I am still under contruction of my bird.. No way to get proper gears here in india..
Your smart bird looks good try to make it fly..
it's overweight, almost 1Kg, because of bearings, some screws and threads..I've built it too big,,the wingspar's structure is not rigid,,
Gears?try to buy it from HK..
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 06:59 AM
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australia
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Originally Posted by Slachemburg View Post
okay thankyu, I want to show you my last work, I try to make festo smartbird, but it's failed.
i would not say failed it just isnt finished yet cheers Brian

i have a bird i built 1930mm wing span is around 600grams rtf weight including a small battery
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 07:43 AM
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Indonesia, East Java, Malang
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Originally Posted by therealthing691 View Post
i would not say failed it just isnt finished yet cheers Brian

i have a bird i built 1930mm wing span is around 600grams rtf weight including a small battery
wow it's big..show me that bird bro!
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 08:09 AM
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Joined Jun 2012
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Gears?try to buy it from HK..
Can Anyone suggest me a good place to buy gears.. need worldwide shipping also..
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:49 AM
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Joined May 2011
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Originally Posted by arun.sreelakam View Post
Can Anyone suggest me a good place to buy gears.. need worldwide shipping also..
http://catalogs.indiamart.com/produc...tic-gears.html

All this stuff is made in India, just choose from.India is good place for building ornithopters and not only IMO- second China. The gears' material is good to be Acetal - Delrin - POM (3 different names for this very strong plastic material) but Nylon gears will work as well and they will operate more quietly . 32 DP standard gear is approximate equivalent to metric module 0.8 ( the main Kinkade's/Protoseni's double gears) , 48 DP standard gear is approximate equivalent to metric module 0.6 ( the first stage single spur gear used in Kinkade's/Protoseni's birds).Whit pinion wire/rod - shaft probably will be more difficult but first use Google more intensively and if this doesn't give you the necessary result use your best tool - your imagination it helps the best way every time If not ask here

Success
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Slachemburg View Post
okay thankyu, I want to show you my last work, I try to make festo smartbird, but it's failed.
Good job!
One kilogram isn't heavy if you going to copy Festo's dimensions as well.Plywood is very good for frame material and if it used properly can give you less weight than carbon fiber used improperly and just because of fashion and/or to attract more not very well oriented costumers/consumers
As about bamboo stick spars, carbon fiber pultruded ones will work much better. I think that your major problem will be the covering of this bird and probably the proper synchronization of the wings' twisting servos. Even in Festo's bird this problem isn't solved 100% correctly.
As about calculating of the minimal necessary flapping frequency it is possible ( not a must -always you can make it to flap fast enough ) if you are relatively good mathematician but it is only for rough orientation( it can't be done 100% correct) because of too much approximated parameters and wide variety of the ornithopters' wings constructions and wings motions.Festo's one flap whit around 2-3 Hz your one probably will have to flap faster because of the weight.

Success and please finish it
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 07:52 PM
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australia
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Originally Posted by Slachemburg View Post
wow it's big..show me that bird bro!
PM sent cheers Brian
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:47 PM
K Kakuta
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Joined Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by Slachemburg View Post
okay thankyu, I want to show you my last work, I try to make festo smartbird, but it's failed.
The ornithopter has to be simple structure in order to make the flyable ornithopter with plywood or bamboo.

SmartBird is made with the carbon material in order to lighten weight while maintaining the necessary strength.
If you will make the same strength with plywood, it becomes heavy.
And the ornithopter can not fly.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
The ornithopter has to be simple structure in order to make the flyable ornithopter with plywood or bamboo.

SmartBird is made with the carbon material in order to lighten weight while maintaining the necessary strength.
If you will make the same strength with plywood, it becomes heavy.
And the ornithopter can not fly.
The question is do you need that strength for the body's frame? For the flapping mechanism's cage ,main wings' hinges, wings spars yes but for body's frame no.So we doesn't have to match the strength of CF one. Even balsa wood or foam will work successfully just isn't so crash resistant .IMO main benefit from using CF for the frame is its stiffness, in cases when the body's frame is just simple 2D plate - in order of achieving better response to the tail commands. The same or better stiffness can be achieved easily just by building of simple 3D frame from much more lighter ,cheaper and far not so harmful for the heath materials .

Balsa wood weight 300 - 350 Kg. /m^3

Birch plywood 700 - 750 kg./m^3

Carbon fiber composite 1600- 1800 kg./m^3 (the hobby grade one is more often 1800 kg/m^3 or the same as G10 fiber glass composite)

Fiber glass composite 1800 - 2300 kg./m^3

There is even WW2 fully wooden construction fighter aircraft and the Morgan's sport cars frame still wooden even today as well .
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 05:17 AM
K Kakuta
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Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
The question is do you need that strength for the body's frame? For the flapping mechanism's cage ,main wings' hinges, wings spars yes but for body's frame no.So we doesn't have to match the strength of CF one. Even balsa wood or foam will work successfully just isn't so crash resistant .IMO main benefit from using CF for the frame is its stiffness, in cases when the body's frame is just simple 2D plate - in order of achieving better response to the tail commands. The same or better stiffness can be achieved easily just by building of simple 3D frame from much more lighter ,cheaper and far not so harmful for the heath materials .

Balsa wood weight 300 - 350 Kg. /m^3

Birch plywood 700 - 750 kg./m^3

Carbon fiber composite 1600- 1800 kg./m^3 (the hobby grade one is more often 1800 kg/m^3 or the same as G10 fiber glass composite)

Fiber glass composite 1800 - 2300 kg./m^3

There is even WW2 fully wooden construction fighter aircraft and the Morgan's sport cars frame still wooden even today as well .
Yes, I think same as you, too.
The strong body is necessary in the following points.
1) When change direction effectively, it is necessary.
When strength of the body is not enough, effects of a tail become a few. And ornithopter can not turn well.
2) It is necessary at crash and a violent landing.
When strength of the body is not enough, ornithopter is broken at crash and a violent landing.
3) Tolerance for vibration of flapping
4) Hardness for power of flapping
At a part between installation portion of a main shaft from an installation portion of a wing.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 05:19 AM
K Kakuta
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Joined Aug 2006
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Butterfly 20-3 with New Wing flapping amplitude change system : Flapping Test

Butterfly 20-3 with New Wing flapping amplitude change system : Flapping Test

Butterfly 20-3 with New Wing flapping amplitude change system : Flapping Test (2 min 55 sec)


This is a new flight control system. Wing flapping amplitude change system(New)
Flight is controlled by changing the amplitude of flapping wings.
Flight control by changing of Flapping amplitude is very effective in Dragonfly 21-11.
But, as for Butterfly 20-2, it was not effective.
The amplitude of flapping wings was changing, but, Butterfly 20-2 was not able to turn.
So, I made a change of the amplitude large.
By this system, I was able to change a direction greatly.
I do not yet let really fly Butterfly 20-3.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:20 AM
fly the best
United States, CA, Tustin
Joined Apr 2010
174 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by arun.sreelakam View Post
Wow this looks good why it failed..? I am still under contruction of my bird.. No way to get proper gears here in india..
Your smart bird looks good try to make it fly..
how are keeping the gears in place?
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 04:22 PM
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Joined May 2011
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
Butterfly 20-3 with New Wing flapping amplitude change system : Flapping Test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ITvtTRQT2o

This is a new flight control system. Wing flapping amplitude change system(New)
Flight is controlled by changing the amplitude of flapping wings.
Flight control by changing of Flapping amplitude is very effective in Dragonfly 21-11.
But, as for Butterfly 20-2, it was not effective.
The amplitude of flapping wings was changing, but, Butterfly 20-2 was not able to turn.
So, I made a change of the amplitude large.
By this system, I was able to change a direction greatly.
I do not yet let really fly Butterfly 20-3.
On the test stand works perfectly congratulations! I am afraid that in the air the effect will be much more weaker (in the past such experiments have been done -flapping only one side of wing another remain fixed) results showing tendency of sharing the amplitude of flapping between the flapping and the fixed wings.

There is a fresh video from today in which the ornithopter is made to flap only one side of the wing I suppose the reason is to fly in circles it is free flight ornithopter.



Flying Pants 2: 3D-printed, tail-less ornithopter (1 min 1 sec)
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:33 PM
DIY Mania from Taiwan
Taiwan
Joined Aug 2011
1,932 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
Butterfly 20-3 with New Wing flapping amplitude change system : Flapping Test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ITvtTRQT2o

This is a new flight control system. Wing flapping amplitude change system(New)
Flight is controlled by changing the amplitude of flapping wings.
Flight control by changing of Flapping amplitude is very effective in Dragonfly 21-11.
But, as for Butterfly 20-2, it was not effective.
The amplitude of flapping wings was changing, but, Butterfly 20-2 was not able to turn.
So, I made a change of the amplitude large.
By this system, I was able to change a direction greatly.
I do not yet let really fly Butterfly 20-3.
Expecting your maiden flight of the new control system of the butterfly
thanks for sharing the vid.
best regards
Sam
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:00 AM
K Kakuta
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Joined Aug 2006
1,126 Posts
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Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
On the test stand works perfectly congratulations! I am afraid that in the air the effect will be much more weaker (in the past such experiments have been done -flapping only one side of wing another remain fixed) results showing tendency of sharing the amplitude of flapping between the flapping and the fixed wings.

There is a fresh video from today in which the ornithopter is made to flap only one side of the wing I suppose the reason is to fly in circles it is free flight ornithopter.
Thank you. I will fly Butterfly20-3 in order to judge whether this method is effective.
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