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Old Jan 14, 2013, 02:50 AM
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It looks like the Bat has the best thrust of all of your birds doc. It seems like it needs less power than other birds to fly.
I'm amazed.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:58 AM
DIY Mania from Taiwan
Taiwan
Joined Aug 2011
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RC guys know that it's not easy job to design and scratchbuild a RC flying bat,not even mention the flapping one
well done! Sensei
best regards
Sam
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:58 AM
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Doctor ,the idea to compare two almost identical fling machines face to face is very good IMO.
But to make the difference in performances more clear IMO you have to increase the angle of articulation of the articulated bat.Now the difference in flapping angles on both birds is negligibly small and respectively the performances are very close . Are there any stability issues that stopping you to increase the angles of articulation on the articulated bat?

Thanks for the videos and the technical data and appreciate flying and filming in such a complicated weather conditions.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:39 PM
K Kakuta
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Joined Aug 2006
1,103 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
Doctor ,the idea to compare two almost identical fling machines face to face is very good IMO.
But to make the difference in performances more clear IMO you have to increase the angle of articulation of the articulated bat.Now the difference in flapping angles on both birds is negligibly small and respectively the performances are very close . Are there any stability issues that stopping you to increase the angles of articulation on the articulated bat?

Thanks for the videos and the technical data and appreciate flying and filming in such a complicated weather conditions.
Thank you.
You noticed well.
Bat18-4 is different from Bat18-3 in the amplitude of flapping.

Ornithopter with Articulated wings can fly in stability.
However, it becomes difficult to turn to right or left.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:08 PM
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Thanks for the encouragement. I've attached a few better pictures and linked a couple of short videos of the flapping action. In the current state of build the ornithopter is quite delicate and wants to come apart when turning the gears by hand as I've not connected the drive shafts or hooks for the rubber. I've also not put the heatshrink on to retain the should hinge in the brass tubes. The video shows two slightly different phasing of gears. Interestingly and something I had not thought about - different directions of rotation give slightly different shape flaps. I think the first phasing is nicer to look at, but will do some experimentation when I have secured the gears and other joints. Thanks.

Orthithopter articulated wing_3.AVI (0 min 32 sec)



Orthithopter articulated wing_4.AVI (0 min 25 sec)
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 07:12 PM
K Kakuta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iky_Alvin View Post
Thanks for the encouragement. I've attached a few better pictures and linked a couple of short videos of the flapping action. In the current state of build the ornithopter is quite delicate and wants to come apart when turning the gears by hand as I've not connected the drive shafts or hooks for the rubber. I've also not put the heatshrink on to retain the should hinge in the brass tubes. The video shows two slightly different phasing of gears. Interestingly and something I had not thought about - different directions of rotation give slightly different shape flaps. I think the first phasing is nicer to look at, but will do some experimentation when I have secured the gears and other joints. Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNP1uS7kG4w


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z7Sh-rgJQ0
This movement cannot make a strong thrust. 
So that a strong thrust is made, when a wing is at the highest position a wing must becomes straight.
While a wing is swung down, a wing must be straight as much as possible.
When a wing go upward, it has to bend.
Can you set your system to move so?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:48 PM
PROFESSOR TRUTH JIMMY ICE
Akura2's Avatar
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
A difference of two ornithopters is only Articulated wing and length, pinion Gear.

Bat 18-4 with articulated wings and swing legs: First Flight test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlDp4jybr6U
Control system is modified swing steering system for membrane flapping wing by Takahasi. Maneuvering is not good yet.
width 101cm
length 38cm
weight97g
battery Lipo 2cell 240mAh 14g
Total flight weight111g
Receiver: OrangeRx R415 Spektrum DSM2 Compatible 4Ch Micro 2.4Ghz Receiver
Servo: DM 4.7g servo *2
Motor:Turnigy 1811 Brushless Indoor Motor 3800kv
Gear: "Main Gear 0.4M 66T*2& 3mm ballbearingSpur Gear (M0.4 x 58T), 64P8TPinionWire(4mm ball bearing),Pinion Gear M04 10T(64P 10T)"
ESC:H-KING 10A Fixed Wing Brushless Speed Controller
Battery:Lipo2cell180mAh G3
Control: 3CH (a motor, Rudder and Elevator servo)
Film of a wing:Orcon film

Bat 18-3 Swing legs: First Flight test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QiYb7hTLRY
Control system is modified swing steering system for membrane flapping wing by Takahasi. Maneuvering is good. It flies lightly. 
width 101cm
length 33cm
weight87g
battery Lipo 2cell 240mAh 14g
Total flight weight101g
Receiver: OrangeRx R415 Spektrum DSM2 Compatible 4Ch Micro 2.4Ghz Receiver
Servo: DM 4.7g servo *2
Motor:Turnigy 1811 Brushless Indoor Motor 3800kv
Gear: "Main Gear 0.4M 66T*2& 3mm ballbearingSpur Gear (M0.4 x 58T), 64P8TPinionWire(4mm ball bearing),Pinion Gear M04 12T(64P 12T)"
ESC:H-KING 10A Fixed Wing Brushless Speed Controller
Battery:Lipo2cell180mAh G3
Control: 3CH (a motor, Rudder and Elevator servo)
Film of a wing:Orcon film

I'll take one, please.... lol
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
Thank you.
You noticed well.
Bat18-4 is different from Bat18-3 in the amplitude of flapping.

Ornithopter with Articulated wings can fly in stability.
However, it becomes difficult to turn to right or left.
Doctor, thanks for the answer but I mean increasing of the articulation angle not of the flapping angle .Exactly like in the next your video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...=bIjRr1fstdo#!
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:09 AM
K Kakuta
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1,103 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
Doctor, thanks for the answer but I mean increasing of the articulation angle not of the flapping angle .Exactly like in the next your video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...=bIjRr1fstdo#!
As you say, Bat18-4 has a little articulation angle .
I will increase the articulation angle of Bat18-4.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:27 AM
K Kakuta
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Joined Aug 2006
1,103 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull10 View Post
Doctor, thanks for the answer but I mean increasing of the articulation angle not of the flapping angle .Exactly like in the next your video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...=bIjRr1fstdo#!
New setting.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:33 PM
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Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kaku View Post
New setting.
Thanks Doctor,

Now there is noticeable difference and I hope the active articulated bat will show its superiority
over the non articulated one. Also I hope, it to be enough stable and controllable .
On the pictures is shown the progress of the articulation angles and IMO the GosHawk 25iV still to be the champion in that field and your best (and closer to the Nature) flying bird and my favorite one

Success on the next test .
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:55 PM
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[QUOTE=Iky_Alvin;23815425]Thanks for the encouragement. I've attached a few better pictures and linked a couple of short videos of the flapping action. In the current state of build the ornithopter is quite delicate and wants to come apart when turning the gears by hand as I've not connected the drive shafts or hooks for the rubber. I've also not put the heatshrink on to retain the should hinge in the brass tubes. The video shows two slightly different phasing of gears. Interestingly and something I had not thought about - different directions of rotation give slightly different shape flaps. I think the first phasing is nicer to look at, but will do some experimentation when I have secured the gears and other joints. Thanks.


You are right, on the first video the motion is better, so it's going to be the right direction of gears rotation
Unfortunately as the Doctor mentioned this motion isn't good enough and I think that your phasing(timing)isn't perfect. Try to make it 90 degree as for beginning and post a result here please
Also I think that is time for you to open your own thread or use Kinkade's one "Wings articulation research thread" somewhere on pages 6,7 or 8 shame for us
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:49 AM
K Kakuta
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Joined Aug 2006
1,103 Posts
Seagull 24iV-4 with Articulated wings Test Flight 2 and Test Gliding 2

SeaGull 24iV-4 with Articulated wings: Test Flight 2 and Test Gliding 2 (7 min 34 sec)


Seagull 24iV-4 with Articulated wings
Test Flight 2 and Test Gliding 2 on Snow ground.
I remade wings to articulated wings.
I reduced a dihedral angle.
I enlarged the tail assembly for improvement of flight control.
This system is the same as a system of Goshawk25iV.
Flapping motion is Good.
A thrust is enough and lift is good.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 05:07 AM
K Kakuta
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Joined Aug 2006
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Bat18-3 flies lightly
The flight of Bat18-4 is powerful.


Bat 18-4 with articulated wings and swing legs: Second Flight test
Bat 18-4 with articulated wings and swing legs: Second Flight test (3 min 23 sec)


Maneuvering was improved.
I made the amplitude of flapping of wing tip large.
Powerful flight.
I mount with the body for exercises.


Bat 18-3 Swing legs: Second Flight test
Bat 18-3 Swing legs: Second Flight test on Snow ground (4 min 38 sec)


Maneuvering is good.
It flies lightly.
I mount with the body for exercises.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:42 AM
DIY Mania from Taiwan
Taiwan
Joined Aug 2011
1,897 Posts
The bats were doing great jobs,totally awesome
thanks for sharing
best regards
Sam
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