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Old Sep 26, 2012, 09:42 AM
Registered Slopeaphile
awmeade's Avatar
S-u-A, UK.
Joined Jan 2003
786 Posts
It wasn't the size that worried me - more the UAV side of things. That's not an RC machine when it can fly out of LOS without interaction from a pilot.

But it's all vapourware anyway
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 10:11 AM
ich bauen groß modell flugzeug
Keenan smith's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
6,834 Posts
Not Vapor-Ware Ok End of.. Just you watch..
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 10:14 AM
ich bauen groß modell flugzeug
Keenan smith's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
6,834 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by abroadhurst94 View Post
Wow. This is pretty much what you said about me too! No one is trying to put you down, just that you're taking everyone on this forum for a mug and you're finally being caught out and trying to make out everyone else are the bad ones.

With regards to the size of this model and the BMFA, you will be covered but only to an extent. There are specifics relating to models over 7kg, such as you needing to hold a 'B' certificate, not taking off or landing from an area with public access, unless marshalled during the flight, having a proper working failsafe fitted. There are also restrictions as to the airspace permitted to fly in and are subject to the ANO, ATC and CAA.
You might want to have a good read through the members handbook.

Though it's likely none of this is relevant as this project will never get that far of the drawing board.
Alex the Deal was that you keep outta my Threads OK!
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 10:37 AM
Registered User
abroadhurst94's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Lincoln
Joined Jun 2011
710 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DDFHobbies View Post
Alex the Deal was that you keep outta my Threads OK!
Deal? What deal? You messed me around like nobodies business, with empty promise upon empty promise, but said nothing about any deals though..? And if there is a deal in place that I don't know about, then why on earth did you comment on my thread last night?

I'm sorry for trying to help you out by letting you know the stringent rules relating to this model you're planning on building.
This is a great hobby, and I don't want it ruined for anybody because of any recklessness on your behalf where you aren't bothering to read up on the restrictions.
If you did, you would know about the things I have said in my previous post and that your idea for the ground-station based on your PC won't cut it with the BMFA, which I really hope you're part of.
If you are, please get out your member's handbook, turn to page 47 and read about the FPV. Your plan is deemed illegal and can get you in trouble if there is an accident, though what you are planning, you could be in trouble even with no accident.
You would also know that in the entirety of the handbook, UAV flights are not mentioned once, this is probably because they don't expect anyone to be dangerous or reckless enough to build such a model and fly it without any human input, especially with all the rules relating just to FPV and models over 7kg weight.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 04:30 PM
ich bauen groß modell flugzeug
Keenan smith's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
6,834 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by abroadhurst94 View Post
Deal? What deal? You messed me around like nobodies business, with empty promise upon empty promise, but said nothing about any deals though..? And if there is a deal in place that I don't know about, then why on earth did you comment on my thread last night?

I'm sorry for trying to help you out by letting you know the stringent rules relating to this model you're planning on building.
This is a great hobby, and I don't want it ruined for anybody because of any recklessness on your behalf where you aren't bothering to read up on the restrictions.
If you did, you would know about the things I have said in my previous post and that your idea for the ground-station based on your PC won't cut it with the BMFA, which I really hope you're part of.
If you are, please get out your member's handbook, turn to page 47 and read about the FPV. Your plan is deemed illegal and can get you in trouble if there is an accident, though what you are planning, you could be in trouble even with no accident.
You would also know that in the entirety of the handbook, UAV flights are not mentioned once, this is probably because they don't expect anyone to be dangerous or reckless enough to build such a model and fly it without any human input, especially with all the rules relating just to FPV and models over 7kg weight.
Quote:
Flying Sites For Models Between 7 Kg And
20 Kg
Models between 7 kg and 20 kg are directly
regulated by the Air Navigation Order and two of the
main legal requirements are that they are not flown
in controlled airspace or in aerodrome traffic zones
(ATZ) without Air Traffic Control (ATC) permission
and that they are not flown at more than 400 ft agl
without the permission of the relevant authority.
Within controlled airspace this is the appropriate
ATC unit and outside controlled airspace it is the
CAA itself.
CAP 658 says;
Models between 7 and 20 kg must not be flown
above 400 ft agl unless with ATC permission (if in
controlled airspace – Ed) and should be flown well
clear of any congested area of city, town or
settlement; 150 metres is suggested. (note that the
CAA definition of ‘congested area’ includes playing
fields that are actually in use, i.e. if a football match
is in progress - Ed).
Arranging to fly on a site already cleared for model
flying could save you some problems.
Long term permission can be arranged for sites
within controlled airspace and ATZs and you should
liaise with your local ATC to arrange this. Such
permission should be in writing and will probably be
for one year.
This type of long term permission is endorsed by the
Caa and BMFA and if your local ATC is not willing
to give it in what you consider to be reasonable
circumstances then you should contact the BMFA
Leicester office. An arbitration procedure has been
agreed with the Caa and the matter will be taken
further on your behalf by the BMFA.
ok ill take this into account Then..

K
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 05:12 PM
Registered User
abroadhurst94's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Lincoln
Joined Jun 2011
710 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DDFHobbies View Post
ok ill take this into account Then..

K
I meant actual page 47 of the handbook, not page 47 of the PDF which is actually page 45 of the handbook.

Quote:
First Person View R/C Flying
FPV RC is a legitimate activity but there are
limitations that you must observe to be both legal
and insured.
ANO Article 166 (3) says The person in charge of a
small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct,
unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to
monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft,
persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the
purpose of avoiding collisions.
This is a strict legal requirement
The implication for FPV RC is that the pilot ‘under
the hood’ cannot, by definition, be the pilot in charge
of the model and that there must be a separate ‘pilot
in charge’ at all times.
After discussions with the insurers and the CAA,
BMFA has been able to arrange insurance for the
activity but ONLY if the following regulation is
followed.
(a) When flying FPV RC, the pilots MUST use a
buddy box system with the pilot in charge using
the master transmitter.
In addition, the model is equipped with a video
camera and video link to the ground and will
automatically be classed by the CAA as a small
aircraft equipped for surveillance.
Consequently, all of ANO Article 167, (Small
unmanned surveillance aircraft) will apply to any
flights made.
This can be read in full in the section ‘Legal Controls
over Model Flying’.
Again, these are strict legal requirements.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 05:50 PM
ich bauen groß modell flugzeug
Keenan smith's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
6,834 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by abroadhurst94 View Post
I meant actual page 47 of the handbook, not page 47 of the PDF which is actually page 45 of the handbook.
Well i cant find my handbook at the moment..

Quote:
First Person View Radio Control (R/C)
FPV RC is a legitimate activity but there are
limitations that you must observe to be both
legal and insured.
CAP 658 Says -
(1) What is First Person R/C?
First person R/C, also known as First Person
View, is a system whereby a radio control model
aircraft is piloted, not through direct line of
sight, but by using a live video downlink from an
on-board camera allowing the pilot to
experience a ‘cockpit view’ and to control the
aircraft from the visual perspective of that
camera. The live video is normally displayed to
the pilot through ‘video goggles’ worn on the
pilot’s head or through a stand-alone monitor.
(2) Legal Position
The law requires that the person in charge of a
model aircraft must maintain direct unaided
visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to
monitor its flight path so that collisions may be
avoided. This is obviously not possible if the
person in charge is wearing goggles. Therefore
there needs to be a way to facilitate this and to
address other safety concerns.
(3) Safety Concerns
Images captured by a camera and displayed on
a flat screen afford the pilot little by way of
depth perception and no peripheral vision.
Moreover, the field of view available is often very
limited and any field of view greater than
approximately 60 degrees is likely to be
distorted towards the edges. This can make it
very difficult for the pilot to accurately judge
speed and distance and to maintain sufficient
awareness of the area surrounding the aircraft
to effectively ‘see and avoid’ obstacles and
other aircraft. The ability to control the aircraft
and avoid collisions is also greatly affected by
the quality of the video which can be very
variable. Furthermore, in the event of a loss of
data link, which can easily occur if the aircraft is
flown beyond the range of the transmitter or
indeed if the battery or another component of
the systems fails, the pilot is likely to
experience difficulty in locating the aircraft
relative to his own position and visually
acquiring it before loss of control occurs.
(4) Control Measures
One mechanism to address the safety concerns
and to overcome the visual contact problem is
already in place within radio control flying. This
is the Buddy Box system which is regularly
employed to train ab-initio pilots in R/C flying.
The system electronically links two transmitters
in a master and slave configuration, whereby a
switch on the master provides the facility to
BMFA Members’ Handbook 2012 Website Edition 49instantly transfer control of the aircraft to either
transmitter. In a First Person R/C scenario it
enables the person in charge of the model to
hold the master transmitter and maintain direct
unaided visual contact with the model whilst
another person flies the model by reference to
the live video from the on-board camera. In the
event of an emergency or problem the person in
charge with the master transmitter must take
control of the aircraft and take whatever action
necessary to maintain safety.
(5) Only fly if:
(a) the activity is solely for ‘sport and
recreation’ purposes;
(b) two pilots take part;
(c) a Buddy Box system is employed;
(d) the person in charge operates the master
transmitter;
(e) the person in charge does not wear the
headset or view a screen;
(f) the aircraft remains within the natural
unaided visual range of the person in charge;
(g) reliable operation of the Buddy Box is
established;
(h) a clear handover protocol is established;
and
(i) the person in charge is solely responsible for
the safety of the flight.
These operating conditions very clearly place
the legal responsibility for the safety of the flight
on the person in charge who must maintain
direct unaided visual contact with the model at
all times.
BMFA Notes
Because the model is equipped with a video
camera and video link to the ground which is
sending recordable data, it will automatically be
classed by the CAA as a small aircraft equipped
for surveillance.
Consequently, all of ANO Article 167, (Small
unmanned surveillance aircraft) will apply to any
flights made. This can be read in full in the
section ‘Legal Controls over Model Flying’.
Again, these are strict legal requirements.
Well it looks like FPV will be pointless then... which means i can Drop 3kg of batts to cuts flight time to 17mins and then the Aircraft would be under 7kg Then at 5.5 to 6kg

K
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 07:15 PM
RC = Empty wallet
InvalidUsername's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Jan 2005
356 Posts
All your build threads end up being talks about whos right/wrong, rules about where and how to fly and what the weathers doing outside. Why don't you buy yourself a bixler fit it with fpv gear and have fun with that? From all your threads/posts on rcgroups, I don't believe you have built and flowen anything bigger than small depron parkflyers, even then they haven't been successful. You expect to wake up one morning and be able to know how to make a plug for a fibreglass model, then also know how to layer it correctly to actually get a finished product that is airworthy? Prove us all wrong by uploading photos of finished models that are airworthy and your current fpv model and ground station and surely you have proof that you belong to a modelclub and ARE insured? You would think someone who is insured etc would have there handbook quite handy to them, google doesn't count. I'm with the others, and have been since you first posted under a different username, your skills and experience aint up for such a project and the only light this project will see is the backlight of your computer screen, sad but true.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 11:44 PM
One with the machine
SuperFPVflyer's Avatar
United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Oct 2010
396 Posts
My advice , K.I.S.S.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 12:58 AM View Post
StompAE86
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Trolling (Group attack). It is temporarily hidden while StompAE86 edits it. Show it to me anyway.
Old Sep 27, 2012, 02:01 AM
Altitude is my friend...
Depronicus's Avatar
Southern California
Joined May 2009
1,563 Posts
Censored.
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Last edited by Depronicus; Sep 28, 2012 at 02:41 PM.
Old Sep 27, 2012, 04:32 AM
ich bauen groß modell flugzeug
Keenan smith's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
6,834 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StompAE86 View Post
How the hell do you all keep getting taken for a ride by this cracker... he is a 12 yr old kid thats not building jack...

check the right side of the photo
http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/at...D11%20nose.jpg

this is from this thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...688899&page=26

I mean its clearly made of paper!!! I mean jeebus how stupid are you all, this is the best laugh I have Had all Day , Oh yeah Dont get me Started On Cappin every Single Word
HAHA
Actually im 15 and the MD-11 is not made of paper its depron
Listen don't make Fun Of some of my mis-capitalization ok
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 04:35 AM
ich bauen groß modell flugzeug
Keenan smith's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
6,834 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvalidUsername View Post
All your build threads end up being talks about whos right/wrong, rules about where and how to fly and what the weathers doing outside. Why don't you buy yourself a bixler fit it with fpv gear and have fun with that? From all your threads/posts on rcgroups, I don't believe you have built and flowen anything bigger than small depron parkflyers, even then they haven't been successful. You expect to wake up one morning and be able to know how to make a plug for a fibreglass model, then also know how to layer it correctly to actually get a finished product that is airworthy? Prove us all wrong by uploading photos of finished models that are airworthy and your current fpv model and ground station and surely you have proof that you belong to a modelclub and ARE insured? You would think someone who is insured etc would have there handbook quite handy to them, google doesn't count. I'm with the others, and have been since you first posted under a different username, your skills and experience aint up for such a project and the only light this project will see is the backlight of your computer screen, sad but true.
I will post all required proof at a later date as i am currently busy finishing An MD-11
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 04:36 AM
ich bauen groß modell flugzeug
Keenan smith's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
6,834 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Depronicus View Post
Because normal people have a very hard time coming to grips with the idea that someone would expend so much time and energy on doing what he's doing. He depends on that, of course, to keep the game going and have his fun with us.



Sure, let's give credit where it's due. He does some research, apparently, and learns enough to make his posts sound like he has some idea of what he's talking about. But, again, it's all done to test the waters and see how many of us he can take on yet another of his rides.

I dare not post a link to the site, because doing that apparently triggers the "personal attack" alarm, and this post will also get squelched as my previous one was. However, I don't think the hammer will come down if I recommend that you Google "psychological manipulation wiki". It will give you some insight as to what's afoot here. The motivations section is particularly enlightening.

This guy may have done some research in that area, as well. We have to admit: He's seems to be well-versed in the techniques, and is actually fairly good at it, although he slips up now and then (more frequently lately as he expands from the airliner forum out into others) and has to struggle to get the cat back into the bag.


But on a serious not why would i spend my time messing with a bunch of people online when i can do better things with my time?

K
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Last edited by Keenan smith; Sep 27, 2012 at 09:20 AM.
Old Sep 27, 2012, 05:34 AM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,475 Posts
Go back to watching playschool little man ! We build and fly here !
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