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Old Sep 19, 2012, 10:08 PM
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United States, OR, Corvallis
Joined Jan 2010
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Build Log
Sig "Tiger" rubber powered plane build

Hey, Just so everyone knows, I come from a build-it-yourself woody RC glider background, and have recently started building this rubber powered Sig Tiger.

So, since I don't know "that" much about free flight sorta things (but I've done some reading here and there), any input is totally welcome. The whole micro-adjustments of warping wings, washout, tailsurfaces, etc on chuck gliders is really interesting and I assume applies similarly with these sort of planes also????

I'm thinking of next getting a Sig "Mini-Maxer", anyone have any thoughts on that plane? It looks cool and looks like a better flier(more aerodynamic and the way I think of cleaner designs coming from a glider background).

So far I'm using yellow alphatic resin wood glue, T-pins, waxed paper and enjoying the Lo-Techiness of this.

Here's what I have going so far:

Adios - Paul
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Last edited by Pauliwog; Sep 19, 2012 at 10:16 PM. Reason: Clarification and afterthoughts.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 11:48 PM
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Norm Furutani's Avatar
United States, CA, Gardena
Joined Oct 2004
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Hi Paul,
A suggestion: The Willamette club has a contest at the end of Sept. One of the events is called the "Runt". It's a one design sort of like your Sig Tiger.
Why not build one and join the fun.

Here's the plan link and also a link to the club. http://willamettemodelersclub.weebly...lan-files.html

BTW - I wouldn't shellac your plane. Go over to Trump's and get some nitrate dope and thinner.

- Norm
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 10:19 AM
Balsa Flies Better!
Stamford, CT
Joined Oct 2000
6,761 Posts
Hi Paul

A few comments...

1) You're overbuilding the fuse. The trick on these airplanes is generally not to add weight/strength, but to reduce it to the minimum amount needed. Tissue with dope will add a lot of torsional stiffness, which negates the need for a bunch of the supports you've added.

2) Sport rubber ships like the Tiger have a limited speed range. Most rubber ships do- the exceptions are things like Wakefields and other very high performance models. Chuck gliders are much harder to trim since they have a very large speed range- i.e. launch to glide. Odds are the Tiger should be pretty forgiving- I built one years ago and it flew fine. Typically what separates the winners from the rest of the pack in rubber power is knowing the motor/prop combinations. The Tiger's a good airplane to explore the use of different size props, blade shapes, pitch, and rubber combinations.
3) I lost the first Mini-Maxer I built when I launched it in too much breeze and it was gone in less than a minute. I flew mine with a 9" Peck prop IIRC- the stock prop is too small.

HTH

Sam
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 01:58 PM
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
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I wouldn't say you've OVER built it but I would not add anything more than what you have now.

If you're looking for notes on how to set up the wing and tail for warps and such check out the thread running right now for Eratix on trimming tricks. I described how I set up the model for warps prior to test gliding and how to generally proceed.

All my rubber models fly "right-right" regardless of them being modern Coupe or P-30 designs with broom handle like fuselages or classy looking old timer designs. Generally it doesn't take a lot to get them to fly that way. But I need to establish it early by setting some angles even during the build. For example I no longer rely on adding trim tabs to the trailing edges of anything. I found that if I only need a slight adjustment that they work fine. But if the tab needs to be angled at more than amount 10 degrees to the surface then the tab no longer has any effect with higher angles. So now I warp the fins to get the turn I need. And generally knowing that I'm going to make the model turn right I'll sand the left side to produce some camber at the trailing edge towards a right turn. Or I'll even offset the fin if it's a "glue in place" deal on the fuselage to angle about a degree to degree and a half towards a right turn to get off with a flying start.

By the way, I intended to chat with you a little more at the last Tangent meet. But someone asked me something and when I turned back you were gone. I saw you briefly one more time but I was on my way out to time someone's flight and when I got back I guess you and your GF had left for the day. If you make it back out for the final meet of the season you will likely see me back out for more of the fun. We can chat a little more that time and by then you'll likely have your Tiger ready for flying.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:51 PM
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United States, NJ, Manchester Township
Joined Dec 2000
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I agree with Sam. The tendency to build for strength generally means that you add those extra "2 x 4's" in the tail. Just where you don't need it! The only stout areas are the basic frame from the firewall to the peg. Everything else is dressing and needs only minimum structure for covering.
It is a hard lesson to learn, but when you start adding gobs of lead and clay to balance it, to the nose, you'll wish you left out half of what you put in.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 10:05 PM
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United States, OR, Corvallis
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More stuff.....and thanks for the input.....

Hey Bruce- Thanks for the input and glad to meet you in person at the last freeflight thing. I did read and print out what you posted about trimming freeflight rubber powered planes so, thanks for that info. I'll have to try what you posted here also as I'm used to doing things sorta like that such as building "washout" into my RC glider wings.

Sam- Yes, old habits die hard, you should see how overbuilt my first 2 RC gliders are, I've tamed it down some on gliders #3 and #4. You're probably correct, but all the additions I'm making are for compression loads, I figured the tissue shrinkage and dope would provide plenty of tension "snugging things up".
Good to know about the Sig "Mini-Maxer".

Norm- I'll probably go get some dope at Trumps since that's what it's made for. I'm mostly curious about trying thinned Shellac since I have plenty of it and denatured alcahol to thin it and clean brushes with. I hope to make it to the next Willamette Modelers event, but I'll be gone for a week and won't have time to make another plane. I plan on sitting this season out and just checking out other people's stuff and posting pictures. I'll check out those plans you posted the link to.

Adios- Paul
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Last edited by Pauliwog; Sep 20, 2012 at 10:10 PM.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 10:30 PM
B for Bruce
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
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On small models of this sort one hint I've used in the past is to glue on a second nose bulkhead which is then used as a sacrificial sanding layer for sanding permanent changes into the nose for down and side thrust.

I use shims at first to do the trimming to get a feel for what I need and then once I know it's flying well I'll mark the sanding layer with the measurements and sand away. I also run an ink line around the outer edge of the front face. This serving as an indicator that the sanding is going well and when done there should be about 1/8 inch of the line left at the point where no sanding was needed or wanted.

Of course some minor changes will likely be needed to make up for not sanding enough or sanding too much. But that's what this sacrificial layer is for.

I also know from past experience to put an initial 3 degrees of down and 2 to 3 of right thrust into the nose block when I drill it for the nose bushing. If I don't the sacrificial sanding layer ends up needing to be 3/16 instead of 3/32 to 1/8 to get the angles I need.

The pictures show that you're doing a nice neet job with all parts aligned well and matching up nicely. But I am seeing lots of glue fillets. Perhaps try thinning it down with a just a little bit of water. And for applying it put a little into a small bottle cap and apply it using a toothpick to transfer only a small drop of glue. That stuff is HEAVY! So controlling how much is used is a great way to cut off a couple of grams.
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Old Sep 21, 2012, 09:19 PM
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United States, OR, Corvallis
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Glue, Bulkheads & Universal joints.......

Hey Bruce, Good idea on the extra bulkhead to sand into a wedge for left/right permanent adjustment of the prop angle.

As far as glue goes, I need to go over it with the knife and chip some of that "spare" glue fillet material out. I was going to, but then I thought it might be nice for the strength so I didn't but now I think I will.

Just curious, does anyone make their own, or is there a commercially available dinky micro universal joint for rubber powered planes for the prop wire? Or is that just not a big enough deal to bother with? I've thought about trying to make one with available hardware like clevis pins and/or other odds-n-ends.

Adios - Paul
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Last edited by Pauliwog; Sep 21, 2012 at 09:20 PM. Reason: More stuff.
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Old Sep 22, 2012, 12:51 PM
B for Bruce
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
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For a model of this size it's common simply to put the rubber right onto the nose block hook. Now if you want to wind using a blast tube then that's a whole other enchilada.

In that case there are a few options. A common way to go is to buy the smaller sizes of Crocket hooks as sold by FAI Model Supplies;

http://domino-35.prominic.net/A55C2D...257743000749DA

Or there if you're handy with working metal and have the tools then some nice ends can be made by drilling a few holes in a strip of aluminium and then cut and file and finally polish your own. I've even seen some made up from music wire where a figure 8 was made up with a small and large end.

OK, I made up a sketch of some hooks similar to some I made a bunch of years back. I started a new thread for it so you can find the drawing there.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 07:18 PM
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United States, MD, Baltimore
Joined Jun 2008
796 Posts
Very cool

I have one of these. I was going to ask if someone could ID it for me, but then I found this thread.
This plane was given to me by a friend. I have never flown it. I really do not have a place to fly it other than outside. I don't think I will be doing that. I will be watching this build thread.
-Andrew
Paul, I am going to send you a PM.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 08:02 PM
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Gold Coast Australia.
Joined Jan 2005
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I've built two SIG Tiger's over the years, and they fly quite well.

Would you believe the first one I built in the '70s got 3rd place in an Open Rubber comp? It did.

Second one I built as pictured for my Grandson.......He flew it to death, and it WAS a very good flier.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauliwog View Post
Hey Bruce- Thanks for the input and glad to meet you in person at the last freeflight thing. I did read and print out what you posted about trimming freeflight rubber powered planes so, thanks for that info. I'll have to try what you posted here also as I'm used to doing things sorta like that such as building "washout" into my RC glider wings.

Sam- Yes, old habits die hard, you should see how overbuilt my first 2 RC gliders are, I've tamed it down some on gliders #3 and #4. You're probably correct, but all the additions I'm making are for compression loads, I figured the tissue shrinkage and dope would provide plenty of tension "snugging things up".
Good to know about the Sig "Mini-Maxer".

Norm- I'll probably go get some dope at Trumps since that's what it's made for. I'm mostly curious about trying thinned Shellac since I have plenty of it and denatured alcahol to thin it and clean brushes with. I hope to make it to the next Willamette Modelers event, but I'll be gone for a week and won't have time to make another plane. I plan on sitting this season out and just checking out other people's stuff and posting pictures. I'll check out those plans you posted the link to.

Adios- Paul
My feeling is you can never "overbuild" an airframe. Having had the back end come flying out the front end on occasion, it is better stronger and longer lasting.
Try banana oil.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 11:27 PM
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
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JKinTX, if you practice what you preach you'll end up with some decent enough casual sport models but you won't get good rubber model performance in smaller sizes or for contest models. Models such as PNut scale rely on a lightly built weight to even fly at all, let alone turn in winning contest performances.

I guess it comes down to opinion and each to their own but most of us would agree that the stock Tiger wing is built more than adequitely strong enough for the sort of flight and even harder landing loads that it will experience.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMatthews View Post
JKinTX, if you practice what you preach you'll end up with some decent enough casual sport models but you won't get good rubber model performance in smaller sizes or for contest models. Models such as PNut scale rely on a lightly built weight to even fly at all, let alone turn in winning contest performances.

I guess it comes down to opinion and each to their own but most of us would agree that the stock Tiger wing is built more than adequitely strong enough for the sort of flight and even harder landing loads that it will experience.
Have to agree with that. To make ém fly well......build in lightness all over.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 03:46 PM
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United States, OR, Corvallis
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Sig Tiger Pictures!!!

Hey, Thanks for posting the pictures of your completed Sig "Tigers"!

Any and all other pictures are always welcome.

Good to know about it's flying capability too.

After looking at the trusses I added to add strength to the rubber band anchor in the tail of the fusalage, the diagonal trusses (per plans) farther back in the tail seem really redundant so I'm probably going to remove those to lessen some tail weight.

The wing is not made to come off per plans, but since I ride my bike to fly RC gliders and model rockets, everything I build is dis-assembly oriented. So, I'll likely re-use the above mentioned (per plans) trusses that I remove from the tail and use them in wing-mount area to make a removable wing so I can take this plane to the park in a box in/on my backpack as I ride my bike to and fro.

I've never built a plane completely per plans yet so I'll just keep on with that trajectory. One of the guys at the local hobby shop thinks it's a genetic condition of some sort.

Adios - Paul
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