Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 05:40 PM
Scott Stoops
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United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
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New T.O.C. Parkflyer

This seems like a good place for this

I recently got plans and parts for a TOC Parkflyer that can be found at this thread...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt....O.C+Parkflyer

As of now Eric et al. are offering it as plans only. The construction pics are available in the above thread but suffice it to say that the plane is VERY easy to build. It has slab sides on the fuse, minimal formers, and slab tail surfaces. The wing is built on the fuse (rather than slid into a big strength reducing hole in the fuse).

The idea (as indicated by the title) is to have a plane that is capable of all TOC maneuvers (so a combination of IMAC and 3D flying) in a small park capable sized package. From my experience with the plane to date Eric has achieved this. Many 3D ships are at best poorly equipped to complete a basic IMAC sequence. The big thick symmetrical airfoil on most 3D ships is very reluctant to snap roll and if it will is a loose wallowing snap. In addition I find that many 3D ships don't track a particularly precise lines through the sky. The beauty of the TOC Parky is that it tracks nicely, snaps well, yet will 3d extremely well too. I believe the reason why is the relatively thin airfoil in combination with the extermely low wing loading. Regardless, Eric has stated that the moments and areas of the plane are ideal for its intended purpose... and I tend to agree.

Anyway here is a picture of the plane in the construction phase... I got the plane last Friday and had it done by mid Saturday (although some of the work was done before I got it from SalC). Then I had to go and work for a few days (always gets in the way of the fun) and just got a chance to fly it yesterday and more today. Here's the pic...
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 05:49 PM
Scott Stoops
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United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
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Here is a finished picture. I now know that I officially hate black solite. I shows every imperfection and discolors with heat very easily. Overall it turned out pretty good considering who was building it I've always been a utility before beauty kind of guy...

Battery access (as well as radio acces) couldn't be easier. The bottom of the fuse from the nose to the trailing edge of the wing is open. The radio and battery are easily accessed through this opening. It would be very easy to rig a hatch to cover it but for me simplicity is the name of the game.
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 05:52 PM
Scott Stoops
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Joined Mar 2002
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Here is a picture of the battery, etc... access.
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 05:58 PM
Scott Stoops
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United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
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Another picture from the topside The landing gear is Carbon rod with a steel axle. The tail has a skid per the plans (how I built it) but would be very easy to rig a steerable tailwheel. The rudder is held to the fuse with CA hinges so it would be plenty strong to handle a small gauge wire tailwheel spring and small wheel. The rudder is full flying and has proven to have plenty of authority with large control throws.

The ailerons and elevator are tape hinged to the wing/stab and that works great. I have only one servo for the ailerons but may consider two servos. The pushrods are carbon rod but could also be setup with pull/pull (which I'll do on my next one- assuming I wreck this one- probably assured).
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 06:04 PM
Scott Stoops
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United States, CO, Longmont
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Last picture... from the front.

As far as specs. Eric is pretty particular as to the setup. If you read through the posts on the other thread, you'll find that the GWS 10x4.7 is the reccomended prop size and he also has a target RPM. This seemed a bit odd to me at first as I had never had the setup be so specific. I took his advice and have found that he was right on in every respect. You need a minimum thrust over the flight controls (i.e. it'd hover with a smaller prop at a higher rpm, but wouldn't have enough control authority). You also need to watch to avoid having too large a disc out there because a say 12" prop will create more torque than is really necessary or desirable. Anyway, the point is Eric has wrung out the design and really does have a winning setup if you follow his reccomendations.

Specs:

Razor 300
GWS -C gearbox
GWS 10x4.7 sf prop
Phoenix 25 esc
GWS 4rp rx
3s ET1200's
(3) GWS Pico bb servos

AUW 11.3 oz
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 06:09 PM
1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34
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United States, OR, Portland
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Looks nice! Are you going to get any video footage?


Steve
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 06:17 PM
Scott Stoops
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United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
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Steve,
Plan to... it was a bit much to ask the wife to do so on either Thanksgiving or the "Great and Mighty Day after Thanksgiving Sale" though

To be honest this, this plane is the easiest to hover plane I have owned with the exception of my flat plate foamies... and its a very close second to them. The beauty of the TOC is that it will also groove the cubans, rolling circles, etc that those foamies won't do so well. In fact I never could get my flat plate (ala 3dX) ships to even stall in the traditional sense...

Scott
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 07:07 PM
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burr ridge illinois
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Scott:
Your plane looks great!
If you try an extra aileron servo, let me know how you like it (I assume to try flaperons or spoilerons?).
With the CG at 1/4" behind the spar I am able to do "single" waterfalls neatly back into a hover, so I never bothered with the extra servo.
As far as pull-pull for the tail, we have two that are like that, and they work fine. I think a little tedious, and really not necessary unless you do a Speed 300 and 9 cell NiMH 720 pack, in which case every gram will help (the prototype is still flying on this setup, and flies the same as the others, just less time).
As far as a tail wheel, don't bother. It'll steer in grass or on concrete perfectly as is.
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 07:19 PM
Scott Stoops
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United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by echassin
Scott:
Your plane looks great!
If you try an extra aileron servo, let me know how you like it (I assume to try flaperons or spoilerons?).
With the CG at 1/4" behind the spar I am able to do "single" waterfalls neatly back into a hover, so I never bothered with the extra servo.
As far as pull-pull for the tail, we have two that are like that, and they work fine. I think a little tedious, and really not necessary unless you do a Speed 300 and 9 cell NiMH 720 pack, in which case every gram will help (the prototype is still flying on this setup, and flies the same as the others, just less time).
As far as a tail wheel, don't bother. It'll steer in grass or on concrete perfectly as is.
Eric,
Thanks! The plane is really flying nicely as it is so I won't bother on the dual aileron servos... I flew it again since posting and am having NO issues with wing rock in the harriers or tightness of the waterfalls so the second aileron servo is redundant at best

I've been pushing the cg aft and have experienced the same incredibly tight waterfall (negative). I'm not quite getting it back into the hover from it as I find I'm behind on the up elevator application to stop the ridiculously tight waterfall.

The transition to hover is so easy! I found that on the first flight I was already down low with it. What mix are you using on knife edge? I'm still at the tinkering stage with that. I'm also tinkering with the aileron throws to try to mechanically eliminate some of the adverse yaw from the ailerons (lazy thumbs). Have you done anything with that at all?

Thanks again,

Scott
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 07:34 PM
GBZealous
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Western Mass
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409 Posts
Looks Great......Purple Pico Servo's?......hmmmm......

NAH
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 07:36 PM
Scott Stoops
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United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
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Noah,
Yep they're Bluebird brand... same case and innards, servo arms, etc... as far as I can tell

Scott
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 07:39 PM
GBZealous
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Western Mass
Joined Jul 2002
409 Posts
The GENIE that NSP is offering looks similar but in Foam and it's a little bigger and heavier

http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=2620
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 07:40 PM
GBZealous
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Western Mass
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Where can I get Some!....Never saw them before........
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 09:07 PM
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burr ridge illinois
Joined Oct 2003
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Scott:
The plane needs some up elevator and opposite aileron for cleaner knife edge.
On my Futaba 8 channel, I use about 20% each to start, and adjust from there (about 1/8" up and 1/8" opposite aileron for full rudder application).
I have found that full rudder deflection is never necessary unless you're wild tumbling. In a knife edge loop about half throttle and half rudder are all that are needed even at the bottom, and any more can make the plane wild, so that no amount of tinkering with the mixes will fix it. Small imperfections in the coupling are easy to "fly" as long as you set the throws/expos up "right" (elevator 40-45*/90%, rudder as far as it will go/50-65%, ailerons 30-40*/50%).
Adverse Yaw?
I haven't seen that. Are your ailerons deflecting evenly?
I didn't bother with any up differential and haven't noticed the need, but I guess that couldn't hurt, and shouldn't be too tough to accomplish mechanically.
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 09:11 PM
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burr ridge illinois
Joined Oct 2003
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Scott:
Bluebird?
Never heard of it!
Same thing but less expensive?

Morphisnb:
Beware the pattern "capabilites" of foamies. These planes DEFINITELY have their place but it's tough to make them rigid and light enough to fly with 3D AND precision. That, and maybe I'm too traditional but I like the looks of a wood plane, particularly they age well (foamies do not).
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