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Old Sep 21, 2012, 05:37 PM
Bye Bye VP Aug 2010 - Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by Porsche Driver View Post
Wow! Lots of experience among the comments, some I understand others I think I need more time in the saddle to grasp.

Since my last post I have spent some serious taxi time, which has revealed a rudder trim or rear wheel issue that I am trying to deal with... it wants to turn left, with enough space at low throttle, it goes in circles, I centered trim, an tweeked the rear wheel, but the winds kicked up so I have to go back at that.

Hand launchings seems to be the key for now, but winds continue to be a problem, I will probably be getting up early in the AM this weekend to see if I can get some calm air. Winds speeds have been low, but the gusts are killing me and my wing (enough said..I am a pro super gluer...working hard to keep the spare wing in the box).

I am really looking forward to calm winds so I can experience that excitement that everyone is talking about...I hope it come soon I need it. I have not found a local club to lean on and the simulators do not seem to be mac computer friendly.

Those of you who have warned about being hooked...I fear it has already happened. If for no other reason that I am driving for the first sustained flight.

Thanks for all the words of wisdom and encouragement.
Wind:

Quote:
BRIEFING 3 - THE EFFECT OF WIND ON THE AIRCRAFT IN FLIGHT

There is probably more nonsense talked and written on this subject than any other connected with the practical side of flying! In reality, the matter is very simple - it is just that so many people find it hard to accept.

Provided that your flying area is clear of vertical obstructions (houses, trees, hedges, hangers etc.) the wind will blow fairly steadily from a constant direction once the aircraft is above about 50ft. Below this height, and depending on the surface of your flying site and the proximity of obstructions, there will be some turbulence both vertical and lateral.

Once you understand this principle you will see that a turn from an into wind heading to crosswind will appear to be a fairly sharp turn when seen from the ground and a turn from downwind to crosswind will appear to be slow and elongated. You must accept these visual effects for what they are and remember at all times that if you have not altered your throttle setting and the aircraft is at constant height then your airspeed is constant and the aircraft is in no danger of stalling.

Once the aircraft has climbed out of this turbulent level it is, in effect, flying in a steadily-moving block of air. Thus, with a windspeed of 10 mph the block of air in which your aircraft is flying is moving downwind at a speed of 10 mph. So, your aircraft which flies at a speed of, say 20 mph will appear to be doing only 10 mph when flying into the wind (flying speed less windspeed) and 30 mph when flying downwind (flying speed plus windspeed). In point of fact your aircraft knows nothing about the windspeed at all and is flying at a steady 20 mph all the time!

You will often hear people say that their aircraft tends to climb when turning into wind and dive when turning downwind. What is really happening, of course, is that they are subconsciously trying to compensate for the apparent variation in speed and themselves causing the aircraft to climb and dive.

One major point to remember - donít try to keep your apparent speed constant or you will find that you will have your aircraft at full throttle when going into wind and stalling when it goes downwind.

If you find all this difficult to visualise, try to imagine yourself piloting a model boat from the bank of a fast-flowing river. In this situation you will find that you can understand the problems outlined above.

When flying in a wind of any strength you will find that your model can be carried away from you very quickly when it is travelling downwind. It is essential not to let it go too far. If you do, not only do you stand a good chance of losing control because you just canít see the aircraft properly, but it is a long and slow slog back to your position against the full strength of the wind. There is another major factor - if your engine stops it will be difficult or impossible to glide the aircraft back to your position if it is too far downwind.

So always try to keep your aircraft upwind of your position as much as possible. By doing so you will save yourself from falling into some very difficult situations.
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Old Sep 22, 2012, 01:52 AM
Joined Nov 2011
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The left turning tendency is possibly due to an effect called prop wash, and you will not want to use trim to get rid of it. Just hold slight right stick for driving straight in the ground. Use the trim to make it fly straight. Putting some permanent right turn in the rear wheel will not help a lot either because it is most pronounced when the plane is light in the rear. This effect is present in all propeller driven planes, but it is a lot more noticeable with taildraggers. So don't be too hasty in diagnosing it as a trim issue.
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 11:21 AM
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Gerry and Logan

You are both right on the mark. I have done a fair amount of reading since my last post and Identified both the ground effects wind as easily over come with altitude and have flown fairly well at what must be 35 - 40 feet. The ground circling is exactly prop wash. My technical knowledge is increasing must faster than my flying skills. Thank you both so much for your insights. I hope to get somemore flight time soon.

Thanks much!!
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 05:31 PM
Bye Bye VP Aug 2010 - Aug 2012
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Pleasure, PD, glad the info is helping you.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dedStik View Post
The only times a plane should be flown close to the ground, especially by novice pilot is on take off and landing. Otherwise they will correct themselves. There's a reason high wing trainers with dihedral have been the suggested first plane for decades.
All rc aircraft are flown relatively close to the ground.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gerry__ View Post
Actually, rudder/elevator/dihedral trainers stop people getting into a bad attitude to begin with. True, you can't land as effectively in a crosswind, but that is for advanced 4ch trainers.
Actually, dihedral has never prevented anyone from entering a dangerous configuration. It's not like it magically stops pilots from excessive rolling, pitching or yawing.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 01:33 PM
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United States, AZ, Mesa
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Originally Posted by jsipprell View Post
All rc aircraft are flown relatively close to the ground.
The Champ is not very fast, so you don't have to fly low

The Champ and all UM planes seem to have horrible ground handling - it's just the light weight I think. Don't worry about it - it's an airplane, not a ground plane.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
The Champ is not very fast, so you don't have to fly low

The Champ and all UM planes seem to have horrible ground handling - it's just the light weight I think. Don't worry about it - it's an airplane, not a ground plane.
I suspect you are replying to the wrong person.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 03:43 PM
Bye Bye VP Aug 2010 - Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by jsipprell View Post
Actually, dihedral has never prevented anyone from entering a dangerous configuration. It's not like it magically stops pilots from excessive rolling, pitching or yawing.
The generally gentle flight characteristics of basic trainers prevent thing developing into excessiveness.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 03:44 PM
Bye Bye VP Aug 2010 - Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by jsipprell View Post
All rc aircraft are flown relatively close to the ground.
Yes, but is obvious what he means in this context.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 10:25 AM
buyer of the farm
United States, FL, DeLand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsipprell View Post
All rc aircraft are flown relatively close to the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsipprell View Post
Actually, dihedral has never prevented anyone from entering a dangerous configuration. It's not like it magically stops pilots from excessive rolling, pitching or yawing.
We are talking relatively to the characteristics of the plane. A fairly slow trainer will be able to fly at 100' and no matter what the attitude of the plane, reducing throttle to 25% and putting the control on the ground prevents a crash. This is because the self-stabilizing nature of the aircraft means that it can both fly itself and recover from adverse attitudes. You know that but you choose to troll.

And dihedral does positively prevent "anyone from entering a dangerous configuration." How can you leave your plane in knife-edge with dihedral. It is absolutely impossible. How can you leave your plane inverted or in any kind of bank at all with dihedral? It is absolutely impossible if the rudder and elevator are neutralized. The plane will reestablish straight and level attitude all by itself. Just pull back the throttle and put the transmitter on the ground.

Therefore it prevents you from leaving the plane in any unflyable attitude of pitch, roll or yaw by recovering automatically to straight and level flight. This prevention, along with the slow flying speed of trainer 3-channel aircraft, is why they successfully teach more people to fly by a huge margin.

It's not a subject for debate as it is not an opinion. It is a long-established and incontrovertible fact.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 07:14 PM
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United States, IA, Hampton
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Nothing is idiot proof, not even the internet, but a good 3ch trainer is as close as you will get in model airplanes. They have great self righting characteristics and will maintain positive control response at low speeds. Just remember the old adage "As soon as you make something idiot proof the world will invent a better idiot."
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 08:07 PM
buyer of the farm
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Originally Posted by cfircav8r View Post
Nothing is idiot proof, not even the internet, but a good 3ch trainer is as close as you will get in model airplanes. They have great self righting characteristics and will maintain positive control response at low speeds. Just remember the old adage "As soon as you make something idiot proof the world will invent a better idiot."
Is that a companion adage to "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with a likely voter?"
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 12:00 AM
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Yes, which is an off shoot of "never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Which explains why committees are proof that as the numbers go up the mean IQ goes down.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 02:49 PM
buyer of the farm
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Yes, only individuals are unstable, illogical and hard enough to get along with to possess genius. No committee would ever have put up with Nicola Tesla. He was just.........crazy. But his genius, which often accompanies craziness, resulted in the power grid that gives us all our electricity today. Normal people, the ones stuffing all those committees, aren't geniuses. And they punish the geniuses, keeping them from making the contributions they normally would. Enthusiasm is "unprofessional."
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