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Old Sep 18, 2012, 08:27 AM
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United States, NC, Faison
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Help!
"the wife wants a combat plane" got her a hogwild !

Ok like the title says. My wife wants a combat plane and I think that I need to find one or build one. She hates the hobby! She seen these things in action and now she wants a stab at it. My 14 year old son also wants the opertunity to cut her streamer and crash her out of the sky. She normaly says or talks only bad about my ("STUPID AIRPLANES") as she says so I think this might be a way to spark her interest and maybe even get her into it!.

What I need;

DX6, I have one already and need 1 more
All the electronics for 2 birds, SC, REC, SERVOS, MOTOR, PROP
2ea airframes, or the planes and instructions on how to build and what to use
STREAMERS!!! What to use for streamers?

Now the important part is advise. Have you guys ever let your wives or girlfreinds infiltrate the hobby that we love? What was your experiance and does it work?

Thanks in advance for your knowledge and suggestions. Keep in mind that our age group is early 40's not 20's. Money for this adventure will be limited to 200.00 per plane or if possable 200.00 for both of them. There might even be a 3rd if I want in on it and even a 4th if the 5 year old decides to take mommy out
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 09:54 AM
WWII combat fan
mammuth's Avatar
Huddersfield
Joined Jul 2008
148 Posts
Look for ESA combats.
Go for light set up - the lighter the better for start, you can always go later for bigger motor and lipo. 6g servos will be ok for later - 9g will last longer.
I use crepe paper for streamers
Please remember that combat models are not best for the 1st model as are low wing and are not made actually to be very stable in the air, although if you set it up correctly then it might(!!!!!!) just do as are very hard to kill - question is if they will learn quick enough
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 12:16 PM
This is kid stuff.
Mazzepa1's Avatar
USA, AR, Harrison
Joined Aug 2010
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Consider a Wild Hog. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1501246

Very stable flyer. Extremely durable, good feature for combat and learning both.
Inexpensive to get in the air. Capable of high performance or easy, slow flight depending on how you set it up power-wise and control throws.

One of the guys at my club has a spouse who regularly joins him at the field. She watched me playing with my Wild Hog a few times, next thing you know she orders one, has her man set it up and she's learning to fly with it.

Most importantly, she enjoys it. Takes a lot of fear-of-mistake pressure off when your plane is not only inexpensive, it's actually difficult to tear up but easy to fix if you do.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 12:57 PM
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I really like the hogwild kits. They look very simple and easy to put togather. So the next question is servos. What would you put in yours? My LHS told me that the servos strip easy and the guys are using metal gears to prevent striping when they go down. I also read that 9Gram would work fine. What brand? I am partial to Hitec but which one to use?

I am totaly against it but I may even go with the orange china copy spektrum receivers.

Also I was told that a 480 park flyer motor and 3 cell 1100 25c and 25amp SC

Is this info acurate and if not what do recomend.

I fly giant scale and gas engines. not into electric at all.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 01:39 PM
This is kid stuff.
Mazzepa1's Avatar
USA, AR, Harrison
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjstrickjr View Post
I really like the hogwild kits. They look very simple and easy to put togather. So the next question is servos. What would you put in yours? My LHS told me that the servos strip easy and the guys are using metal gears to prevent striping when they go down. I also read that 9Gram would work fine. What brand? I am partial to Hitec but which one to use?

I am totaly against it but I may even go with the orange china copy spektrum receivers.

Also I was told that a 480 park flyer motor and 3 cell 1100 25c and 25amp SC

Is this info acurate and if not what do recomend.

I fly giant scale and gas engines. not into electric at all.
Give that thread a study for various setups used in the WH. At least check out the touch-n-go video.

Metal gear servos are generally recomended for combat planes, especially full contact types like the Hog Wild. Not strictly necessary, however. Here's what I have in mine. http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...A-Metal/Detail
If I was making an order with Hobbyking for OrangeRX recievers anyway, I wouldn't hesitate to use these. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...g_0_10sec.html

The motor, batt, esc recommend you got is sound.

I use the $6 OrangeRX DSM2 recievers in almost everything.

The manual that comes with the WH has equipment setup recomendations from the designer for a "Mild" or "Wild" Hog.

Fair warning, y'all get a Wild Hog in the air and start having some let your hair down flying fun, those gassers might be getting less flight time.....

Edit: Should have mentioned, the WH is an outstanding windy day flier. I routinely fly when everybody else is grounded by the wind. It's become the routine at our field. Well the wind's got up, let's get out the lawn chairs and watch Steve's Wild Hog do some rip snortin' across the sky. It's a gas-gas-gas.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 07:16 AM
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I went to HK and HP to find a motor and SC but the numbers are confusing to me. Their like 3300 / 1480 and 2100 / 1700. What should I be looking for. Also some of them say 2 cell and others say 3 cell. I definetly want 3 cell batteries. But what motor and what do those numbers mean?

I am going to go with a 40A SC just to remove any doubt that it will over heat and shut down. I figured the 5 or 10 dollar diffrence would mean they could could keep flying and not get grounded.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 07:34 AM
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I just ordered 2ea Hog Wild Combat planes from Amazon. Now I am going onto Hobby King and get some gear.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 11:20 AM
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USA, AR, Harrison
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjstrickjr View Post
I went to HK and HP to find a motor and SC but the numbers are confusing to me. Their like 3300 / 1480 and 2100 / 1700. What should I be looking for. Also some of them say 2 cell and others say 3 cell. I definetly want 3 cell batteries. But what motor and what do those numbers mean?

I am going to go with a 40A SC just to remove any doubt that it will over heat and shut down. I figured the 5 or 10 dollar diffrence would mean they could could keep flying and not get grounded.
Good call on the ESC. The numbering system for elec motors is hard to get used to, as there is little standardization. The Park 480 you mentioned earlier for instance 480 indicates the size, a 400 would be a bit smaller and so on. Headsuprc offers two lines, Firepower and Power Up that use this system. IMHO, for a Wild Hog, a 480 size motor is getting into hot rod territory (ideal for me) a 400 size motor is quite adequate and enjoyable.

If you go with the designer's recommendation you can't go wrong, good place to start until you get things sorted out better.

Each LiPo cell is a nominal 3.7v. 2S, 3S, etc = the number of cells connected in series so a 2S = 7.4v, 3S = 11.1v and so on.

You've never mentioned a battery charger, do you already have one? If you're not used to using LiPo batteries I recommend some study of them.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 06:32 PM
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I have 2 lipo chargers and use lipos on all 12v accesories such and starters and field box stuff. Even run 2 3cell in series parrallell for 24 v starter. Good in that area.

I get the 400 and 480 size motors but what I dont get is what the KV ratings mean. Not all of the motors are listed as 480 or 400 or .10. What would be a good KV rating? 3300 / 17000 or something like that and do you go by the first number or the second number? I read in another thread where a 1500 kv motor is the max if you fly at compatitions. So again is that the first number or the second?
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 09:01 PM
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Mazzepa1's Avatar
USA, AR, Harrison
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjstrickjr View Post
I have 2 lipo chargers and use lipos on all 12v accesories such and starters and field box stuff. Even run 2 3cell in series parrallell for 24 v starter. Good in that area.

I get the 400 and 480 size motors but what I dont get is what the KV ratings mean. Not all of the motors are listed as 480 or 400 or .10. What would be a good KV rating? 3300 / 17000 or something like that and do you go by the first number or the second number? I read in another thread where a 1500 kv motor is the max if you fly at compatitions. So again is that the first number or the second?
Here's some good info for you.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...n#post22550183

KV rating is the ratio of motor rpm per volt supplied to the motor. So, lower kv for a given voltage = lower motor shaft rpm, higher kv for a given voltage = higher motor shaft rpm. As you already know, lower shaft rpm allows use of larger dia props and vice-versa.

That 1500kv max at competitions must be a rules thing. 1100kv to 1500kv is a good range for a Wild Hog. I run motors around 1100kv 'cuz I like the extra low end oomph for vertical work. A 1500kv motor would be better for higher speed.

If the rating of a motor you're looking at to buy is hard to be clear on by the catalog spec, ask the vendor for clarification. Where, or if the kv rating appears in the motor model# varies from maker to maker. Headsuprc is a vendor that provides product info that is more complete and reliable than most, to include prop data.

You can follow the designer's recommendation and get a good flying Hog in the air and do the heavy thinking later. Believe me, I know how annoying it is to figure out the mish-mash of brushless motor spec jargon. I'm still trying to get it all square.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 03:45 AM
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United States, AK, Fairbanks
Joined Aug 2009
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Quote:
I get the 400 and 480 size motors but what I dont get is what the KV ratings mean. Not all of the motors are listed as 480 or 400 or .10. What would be a good KV rating? 3300 / 17000 or something like that and do you go by the first number or the second number? I read in another thread where a 1500 kv motor is the max if you fly at compatitions. So again is that the first number or the second?
A motor's Kv value (note the term- value, not 'rating') is simply the relationship between voltage and RPMs. It's a physical property of the motor just like mass or diameter. For our purposes, a motor with no load will spin at (Kv*Vin).

It's impossible to say exactly what a "good" Kv value is without a few other key pieces. You need to know your intended battery voltage (you do), the airframe, (yep), desired flight performance, and an "ideal" range of props and RPMs that it will take to get that performance. I don't know exactly what you were reading, but it was probably the rules for one very specific type of competition. Different planes, and even different power system configurations, will require different Kv values. If I double my voltage and cut my Kv value in half, performance will be exactly the same with a given prop. Current draw would be halved, RPMs would be identical.

As far as motor sizes and nomenclature, forget it. Pay no attention to it. All you really need to know is the motor's Kv value, mass (grams), and maybe its diameter, all of which will be plainly stated in the motor's specs if it's coming from a vendor of any half-decent form. Every manufacturer uses different numbering systems; some will specify the Kv in the name but others might only give you the turn count (useless by itself). Usually the first number is related in some way to the physical size and the second number has to do with Kv, but like I said they're all different and it takes experience to figure out how to "read" them. Just look at the spec'd Kv value and the mass. Also, forget this 300/370/380/400/450/480 nonsense. It's even WORSE.

Now look how easy it is: The Hog will be well-suited to about a 1200 to 1600Kv motor between 50 and 80 grams depending on how much power you want it to have. Personally I'd recommend the 1500Kv, 70g Suppo 2217/6 swinging a 7x5 prop. Prop choice will depend on the motor you choose, but 7 or 8" diameter is a good range for this type of plane.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 06:44 AM
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Ok so I think im getting closer to an understanding. I have been looking at specs and not makeing heads or tails of them because I have found that the motor with same kv as another could only swing 4 X 4 prop where as the other one could swing an 8X6. So it's also the motor weight and thats what I was missing. I guess a motor that wieghs more and has more windings giving it WOT power, RIGHT? I hope? So what a company does is take all there motors that will fit inside a 450 sized bird and just lumps themin the same catagory but you still have to pay attention to the variables that make up the motor itself. Like wieght versus kv versus max volts.

So my motor specs should be like you said,
50-80 grm
around 1500 kv
3 cell 11.1 input
prop 7X5
I already ordered gens ace 3s 25c 1300mah


Again I am going to go with either 35A or 40A SC
Does this sound like a good starting point?
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 08:17 PM
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A good rule of thumb is to have the highest kv possible . Simple as that, no needed extra explaining. A higher kv is always more power for how much you pay.

Mick
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Old Sep 21, 2012, 12:04 AM
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mikhail - thats actually terrible advice... especially for those starting to build. Very high kv is useless outside of pylon racing, micro models and EDF jets as they all need ultra-high rpm.

What you are after here is exactly what C4H10 recommended - a 1500kv-ish motor between 50 and 80g.

I would recommend a HobbyKing 'BlueSeries' 30A ESC as they are both inexpensive and very nice performers with a smooth throttle curve. They are programmable as well. You will find that a 30A ESC is more than enough to turn a 7x5 or 8x6 prop at 1500kv on 3s lipo's.

Cheers - boingk
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Old Sep 21, 2012, 06:47 AM
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What I have so far!

Ok for the set up this is what I have coming in the big brown truck!

Exceed RC Rocket 2215-1500KV the specs:

86MA67-2215-1500KV
Weight (g) 60
Watts 300
Diameter (mm) 28
Length (mm) 30
stator 22*15
No of cells (lipo) 3
max efficiency (%) 81%
max efficiency current (A)? 10-22A
no load current (A) 1.3A
current capacity (A/s) 40A/60S
Internal Resistance (mohm) 68
Shaft Diameter (mm) 3.17
Shaft Length (mm) 45
Class (SIZE) rocket series
KV (RPM/VOLT) 1500
Turns (for cars)Poles 6.5
Max Voltage 14.8
Wire Size 0.2*7
Bullet Connectors Male
Bullet Connector Size 3.5*12.7

ESC is Dynam Detrum 50A and a programing card for Dynam Detrum ESC

LiPo's are Gens Ace 1300mah 25C 11.1

Etreme PA-010 two poer analyzer watt meter

9G EXI Digital Metal Gear Servo D312F

will buy 2ea 7-5 apc and 2ea 7-6 apc props on the way home Saturday

Spektrum 6111E REC

DX6i

And its all going in the 2 Hog Wild'S. I am even going to paint one of them like a butterfly for her and maybe a vampire bat for the other.

Keep in mind that evrything is doubled because I am building two of them. So far my total out of poket with shipping cost is, $398.39.

I am meeting a fella local on Saturday to do some horse trading with and I am picking up a H9 RTF P-51 PTS. It has a brand new DX6i in the deal so I will have three DX6i's if it all works out and we agree on the trade. I'm giving up a NIB Extra 300S with a BME 58 Extreme and a MidWest CAP 232 with a DLE20. I recieve in return a RTF H9 1/4 scale cub all electric set up with the bateries and the NIB H9 P51 RTF.
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