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Old Sep 19, 2012, 09:30 AM
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Interesting, it seems the local hobby shop got their heli...

http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/vi...28brand+new%29

from here?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/RTF-V...569945499.html

$300 - local store

$268 - aliexpress

Same package (includes case, training kit, etc.), local store is $32 more expensive, but i don't have to deal with shipping.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Germantown, WI.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajile View Post
While i was looking up the 450QS, i came across a parts list and saw this.

http://www.myrcmart.com/rcx-3axis-fl...er-p-5005.html

Why is this $70

http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/flybarless.html

And these are $200+?

And can i fit a Walkera Rx to a KDS450QS?
I suggest you look at this, it's only about $60:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1512179

As for Walkera receivers, you will need a compatible Walkera transmitter.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 01:11 PM
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A 450 can be quite a dangerous machine and it is best that you have some local help available so that your heli can be checked and set up correctly. It could be a LHS that carries Align parts and knows how to repair helis, and/or an experienced person you know. I am not particularly keen on ready built 450 sized helis from any brand. They are built by factory workers who do not have any interest in the hobby. I would rather have one built professionally for a fee. rc711 offers ready built Align or AL2RC 450 FBL helis with a Walkera receiver already installed. I would also check whether your LHS does building, setup and repairs.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 02:05 PM
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Yeah... looks like i'll have to skip the KDS. Local hobby shop only has Align and VWIN. I thought the parts are interchangeable, but someone in this forum has a 450QS and when he tried buying replacement servos, they didn't fit his KDS. Looks like i'll be sticking with VWIN.

@Balr14
If there are $60 3 axis gyros systems looks like i'll be able to put one together. Since there's no one selling flybarless RTF, i may have to build one myself afterall.

http://helitrex.multiply.com/photos/...KITS-##photo=9

http://helitrex.multiply.com/photos/...ITS-##photo=10

What's the difference between a sport and a pro airframe?

And what's the difference between the cyclic servos vs tail servos?





So i can basically copy the specs on this and get the electronics

http://www.hobby-wing.com/tarot-450p...per-combo.html

But use a VWIN frame instead?
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 03:12 PM
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CopterX makes a nice flybarless model kit. http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/RC-Helic...duct_info.html

Sport and Pro models are often shaft versus belt driven tails.

With flybar helis, the cyclic servos do not work as hard as the tail servo. This is not true with flybarless. With flybarless, you want 4 strong and fast, metal gear servos.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 01:14 AM
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Hey you're right, i'm supposed to get a belt tail. Between flybarless and belt driven, i've narrowed down the chasis i'm going to get from eight kits to just one. It's so obvious now

Parts so far and why i got them

VWIN TREX 450 Sport clone (Flybarless and belt driven tail) P2,900
http://www.vwinrc.com/?product-665.html

KDS ZYX Gyro (Suggested here) P2,800

Any 3800kv motor (3800KV seems typical for a 450?) P850
EMAX 40A (There were three 40A listed, i just took the middle one) ESC P1,600

YKS 11.1V 2200 25c (Only 25c they have) P800

Walkera Devention 8Ch Receiver (RX-801 from RC711.com $35) P1452

The last part i'm looking for are the servos. What am i looking for? Balr14 said i'll need stronger servos. Everything's falling into place for the others, but the servos are still beyond me. There are apparently different sizes and tab positions so i have no idea which will fit the VWIN, these i may definitely have to get from the LHS to make sure they fit.

So maybe one of these P850
http://helitrex.multiply.com/photos/...RVOS##photo=16

And three of these P990 (P2,970)
http://helitrex.multiply.com/photos/...RVOS##photo=17

They're apparently meant for trex 500s, should be strong enough?



Unfortunately, the LHS only supports Align and VWin. The other hobby shops are either land based RCs, plane specialist, or just a general RC store. I may get them online cheaper, but they still have to match with what's at the store.

I've added up the cost and it only adds up to 14,222php ($340). Not too bad, it'll likely get lower if i order online (The frame is definitely going to be local tho), but most of the stores seem to be constantly out of stock, and if i buy them from separate online stores, the shipping and customs taxes will add up. I'll keep checking.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 05:17 AM
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Sorry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajile View Post
@Balr14
I looked around a bit. Flybarless chasis is cheaper, but i the gyros are 200-300usd, yikes! I think i'll start with flybarred.

@old4570
Cool. So it's a good buy? Or are you being sarcastic?

I'm still getting a feel of what it's like to order from abroad. The Philippines is a stones throw away from HongKong (relatively speaking), yet it takes 21 days for an order from banggood to arrive the first time, and 26 days on my second try. I'm working my way up to larger items and testing the waters with the post office. Customs fees can take up to twice what's written on the box if you get them on bad day. For now, the local sellers are the only ones i can rely on for supplies.

I honestly don't know what goes into a helicopter so i really can't make a decision. I can put together a gaming PC and know where to focus and where to compromise so i can build a good one and still get a high end at lower cost. But i don't know how to balance the components of a helicopter. I'm proabably like a non-techie unknowingly wandering into an apple store.

So if you guys have no issues with the $300 heli that came with a case, i'll probably get that one.
Both , the case looks BOSS [ I like it ]
The heli looks like a $150 job on ebay ...
If you really want the case , and knowing how expensive cases can be , yeah go for it , but if you want to spend money on a copter ? for 300US green backs you can buy a lot more copter [ but no case ] ..

But like I said , shop around , see what is what , your first 450 dont need to be expensive , it just needs to work ..

Are there any Heli fliers around you ? with 2nd hand gear to sell ?
If you shell out 150 for something set up , flight trimmed , and ready to rock n roll . Then you may leave 50% of problems in your wake ...

450 x222 (0 min 51 sec)

Im trying to sell this on Ebay ATM , rotor head speed is a little high in the video making it a tad lively [ responsive ] but when you increase pitch and lower the head speed , its as docile as a sleeping cat .. Almost the perfect Noob heli , its still a 450 so it will never be hands off .

Dont worry , not pushing it on you or anything , just mentioning ..
I would love to see it go to a good home , unfortunately there are too many people that simply dont understand the value of a well set up 450 , and thats fair enough .

So I say , wait ! Keep your money safe ! Dont rush in ! Take 7 Days to explore the 450 world , go on Ebay , check out the prices on parts [ youl need parts ] , go to Hobby King , check out the available servos , youl most likely kill a few cyclic servos .. Just get a feel for the environment .
If you buy a $150 RTF , you may still want a decent charger $30 +
At least a spare battery $12 for a cheap one [ see my 6 month Noob thread ]
And screws , hex drivers , drive cogs , feathering shafts , main drive shafts [ head ] spare servos , tail boom , tail rotor shaft ,

Yeah ! Spares , go to factor in spares ...
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 05:36 AM
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Hmmm

http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/RC-Helic...duct_info.html

This kit : Above

This ESC ? [ I use 3 ATM ]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220754341527...84.m1497.l2649
9650 Tail gyro
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320727123547...84.m1497.l2649
Motor
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-Mo...item25653d2c0a
Gyro
http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/Servos-a...duct_info.html

Support the swashplate servos: 1.52ms analog servo, 1.52ms digital servo - Hmmmmm
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 06:05 AM
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@old4570

Like these?

- - - - - - -

http://www.rctech.net/forum/manila-r...only-2554.html

Post #38309

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...y-dsc08274.jpg

7000php (166usd) for rtf and alloy chasis

- - - - - -

http://www.rctech.net/forum/manila-r...only-2546.html

Post #38189

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...83468531_n.jpg

5,900php ($140) including spare parts



Shipping from abroad is rather risky. We've had horror stories of customs officers taxing items up to 200%. I live in the suburbs and the post office here is a bit more lenient (Customs fee = $1), but i'm still testing how much i can get away with, a two foot, two kilo package might attract someones attention. That's why i'm seeing if it's better to get a local chasis and get the smaller components from abroad.


EDIT: I'm bookmarking ehirobo

EDIT2: Ordered an RX-701 receiver to try it out.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:09 AM
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Read the thread on the KDS ZYX Gyro. I recall some issues setting it up, with some transmitters and receivers. If you already have a Devo transmitter, one of Walkera's multi-axis gyro/receiver units may be a better choice. By all means, buy as much as you can from the LHS. My LHS is a great resource for any problems I don't want to tackle. It's worth the extra money.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 03:22 PM
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Finally found what you were talking about. It's not listed as a stand alone receiver and only found it when i looked up spare parts for a Walkera 450 heli. The one on Walkeras site only works with the old transmitter.

http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/Walkera-...duct_info.html

$130

Quite a bit more expensive than a separate KDS ZYX and RX-701




I'm still stumped on the servos.

http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/Servos-a...367/index.html

If i were to get the VWIN flybarless, how do i narrow down what servo i'll need? What differentiates a $10 servo from a $60 one?

The pics on the VWIN site shows only one hole on the collective servos, so i assume that it uses mini servos. Is it okay to also assume that 1.3kg will work for the cyclic, and 2kg for the tail?

http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/Servos-a...duct_info.html

http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/Servos-a...duct_info.html
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 04:52 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, all 450s use 9gr micro servos. You can use a bigger mini servo on the tail if you wish, but a good digital 9gr should be more than enough. I usually spend in the neighborhood of $20 for a servo, and I usually buy Hitech or find a deal on a set of Futabas. It's hard to recommend servos without knowing how you fly.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
If I'm not mistaken, all 450s use 9gr micro servos. You can use a bigger mini servo on the tail if you wish, but a good digital 9gr should be more than enough. I usually spend in the neighborhood of $20 for a servo, and I usually buy Hitech or find a deal on a set of Futabas. It's hard to recommend servos without knowing how you fly.
Definitely not inverted I'm going to check Hitech and Futaba later. I just looked at what looked like weights and the ones at the VWIN site were only pulling 1kg at 6 volts. I figured these that can pull 1.3kg with metal gears would be enough. Atleast until my first crash

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like 9g is a good benchmark since they still seem to be different sizes. Fortunately, height doesn't seem to matter in the VWIN frame.

http://www.vwinrc.com/uploadfile/att...51_11_4460.jpg

If the servo was too long, it'll just go right through, and it seems the servos collar can also be mounted on either side. I think someone here posted problems fitting new servos on his 450QS, same sized servos but the collar the screws attach to was the wrong height.

Since servos doesn't seem to be uniform, i'll have to get the frame first and measure the holes with a ruler before getting the servos just to be sure


This one's the fastest:
Operating Voltage: 4.8v ~ 6.0v
Operating Speed: 0.12sec/60
Stall Torque: ≥1.3kg
Size: 23.2 x 22 x 12.5mm
Weight: 9g
http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/Servos-a...duct_info.html


This one's pretty strong:
Operating Voltage: 4.8v ~ 6.0v
Operating Speed: 0.13sec/60
Stall Torque: ≥2.5kg
Size: 22.8 x 24.8 x 12.6mm
Weight: 16g
http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/Servos-a...duct_info.html


This one's as strong as the second one, almost as light as the first, but it's the slowest:
Operating Voltage: 4.8v ~ 6.0v
Test Voltage: 4.8v
Operating Speed: 0.16sec/60
Stall Torque: 2.5kg.cm (34.72oz.in)
Size: 23.0x11.4x24.1mm (0.91x0.45x0.94in)
Weight: 9.77g (0.34oz)
http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/Servos-a...duct_info.html

rc711.com actually has measurement specs for each servo. Cool. I'll check that out when i get the frame.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajile View Post
@old4570

Like these?

- - - - - - -

http://www.rctech.net/forum/manila-r...only-2554.html

Post #38309

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...y-dsc08274.jpg

7000php (166usd) for rtf and alloy chasis

- - - - - -

http://www.rctech.net/forum/manila-r...only-2546.html

Post #38189

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...83468531_n.jpg

5,900php ($140) including spare parts



Shipping from abroad is rather risky. We've had horror stories of customs officers taxing items up to 200%. I live in the suburbs and the post office here is a bit more lenient (Customs fee = $1), but i'm still testing how much i can get away with, a two foot, two kilo package might attract someones attention. That's why i'm seeing if it's better to get a local chasis and get the smaller components from abroad.


EDIT: I'm bookmarking ehirobo

EDIT2: Ordered an RX-701 receiver to try it out.
I would not buy sight unseen : You want a flight demo ... [ 2nd hand ] If its stable and smooth , no porpoising or weird stuff , and the price is ok , why not !
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 11:01 PM
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http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...4kg_0_09s.html

Ordered 10 of these , hopefully get here soon :
The earlier Yellow 15178 was a fantastic little $2 servo , so I hope only the color has changed
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