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Old Oct 02, 2012, 06:06 PM
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Hi, guys.

I want to thank everyone again for participating. Do you think i should ask to make this thread a "sticky"? If so, is there anything I should add or edit out?
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 03:33 AM
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Australia, QLD, Townsville
Joined Jul 2011
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G'day gents, Ive recently bought the dynamic S from HK and is my first glider type aircraft. Iv'e been flying around for the last few weeks and have been really enjoying the this new type of flying. But it all fell into place today when I got some tips to find thermals. I flew for around 15 minutes ,no power ,just riding in the waves. The only reason i came down was my eyes where straining in the brightness of the day.

I'm completly hooked. And yes i reckon this is like fishing. You hunt fish and you hunt thermals.
I think glider pilots are to flying as fly fisherman are to fishing, ( A bit weired ,HA )
Looking forward to reading all the posts and picking up knowledge from you seasoned lads.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 03:55 AM
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Australia, QLD, Townsville
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I've been reading through the thread and there seems to be a few of us starting off with the dynamic S. While it's not really a floater as such I think it's teaching me a few things such as getting the speed washed of for landing. Detecting wings stalls and rectifying them before hitting the deck. I have mixed in 2 position flaperons ,but so far I haven't had a really benefitted from using them. In position 1, the flaps will give a slight nose up atitude, but the loss of speed does overide the slight lift. More experiment on flaps to come.
And I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm have good time anyway.

I had a look at the albatros glider range. Now that's something to drool over.

Question. Are there any techniques to keep a glider in the air if there is virtually no thermals to be had??. without the use of a motor of course.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:15 AM
If it flies.....I can crash it
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United Kingdom, England, Preston on Stour
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medroller View Post
I've been reading through the thread and there seems to be a few of us starting off with the dynamic S. While it's not really a floater as such I think it's teaching me a few things such as getting the speed washed of for landing. Detecting wings stalls and rectifying them before hitting the deck. I have mixed in 2 position flaperons ,but so far I haven't had a really benefitted from using them. In position 1, the flaps will give a slight nose up atitude, but the loss of speed does overide the slight lift. More experiment on flaps to come.
And I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm have good time anyway.

I had a look at the albatros glider range. Now that's something to drool over.

Question. Are there any techniques to keep a glider in the air if there is virtually no thermals to be had??. without the use of a motor of course.
I also have a Dynamic and have found that Flaperons do very little to slow the bird down and if anything make it harder to get on the ground....I tried Spoilerons and they offer no lift and do a great job of slowing her down, however the trade is control of the Ailerons....I have found setting a very high spolieron and Switching them on and off on approach works really well at slowing her down.

another way I have found to keep her in the air is to go out flying when its windy...over 20mph and use it to gain lift upwind.....its also alot of fun on the down wind passes at high speed.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:39 AM
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I haven't flown a Dynamic but one thing to keep in mind is that one will often get more "dead air" time by flying a bit faster than one might think is the best for floating. Let the nose come down just a bit and the lift to drag ratio goes up. You will cover more ground, and maybe even find some little bubbles of rising air, at the very least.

I have found that spoilerons work better than flaperons for glide path control.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 11:55 AM
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USA, KY, Louisville
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flaperons versus spoilerons

Hi Guys
Instead of guessing about the two, engage those little grey cells

Flaperons and spoilerons are the lazy way to get results and the results are the same as any lazy action.... more lift (flaperons) or less lift (spoilerons).

But from reading your posts about your Dynamic, its neither that you want...you want brakes.

Added lift
Less lift
Brakes

Are any of those words spelled the same, do the sound the same?

I'm guessing not...to you or to me, then why bother to imagine that they might serve the same purpose?

Slowing the model down is a small component of both Flapersons and Spoilerson, but a very small component as you have found...but at the cost of aileron control.

Spoilerons when used as brakes, kill lift by removing camber and cause the model to speed up. IF the model is well balanced (don't confuse those letters as being the same as balanced, as one is done by measuring a spot on the wing while on a bench to get the model to teeter level with out tipping and one is done by flying). IF the model is well balanced and its stab to wing incidence is correct (that has to be there first if the model has a fixed stab with elevator). Then its possible to slow the model somewhat using Spoilers (or faux spoilers - Spoilerons) by flaring the nose of the model with elevator.

Flaperons when used as brakes, create lift by adding camber and cause the model to slow because of the increased drag. This can be controlled by using down elevator to speed the model up in order to keep it from stalling.
Doesn't sound like brakes.

Spoilers are great on the slope to keep the model from lifting during the approach but don't slow them down much.

Lets change the name from Flaps to Landing Brakes....seperate from the ailerons, they can be dropped 90 degrees quickly. That means they are not cambering the wing but instead are creating huge drag AND reducing lift.

The simple solution is to split your ailerons 60% flaps, 40% ailerons, install two more servos. Mix flaps with ailerons if you like for full span aileron (not needed) so that there is no change to the original model in flight.

Then set up the flaps so that your throttle stick pulled down drops the flap portions 60%+ down as you pull the throttle down....because you DO now have throttle.

The motor should always be on a slider, not a knob or a switch which can accidentally be actuated. Your model is an electric launch sailplane so there is no need for motor speed variation, on or off.

Which would you rather have, motor speed control or the ability to stop your model in your hand as it approaches? Like we do with our 4m contest ships?

Gordy
Why yes I did fly 3 completely different flying wings on the slope yesterday...and no none of them were made of rubber ;-)
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 12:21 PM
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While there is some loss of aileron authority with spoilerons one still has roll control as long as one sets them up to that they have some throw each way when the spoilers are deployed. Also, since spoilerons effectively decrease the angle of attack, one can pull the nose up to slow the plane down without stalling. The big problem with flaperons is that, by increasing the angle of attack out to the wing tip, they will open one up to a severe stall and dropping a wing despite the increased lift. That's why "crow" mixing, on a glider with both flaps and ailerons, for braking always moves the inboard flaps down and the ailerons up. It reduces the chance of tip stalls.

If one doesn't pull the nose up with spoilerons then the airspeed will increase. If one has a short field and has to dive in then one will probably need some other means of braking. Fortunately, electric gliders have another very effective braking system. If one hits just enough throttle to kick the prop blades out, without adding any thrust, the windmilling prop is a very, very, effective air brake.

Of course, different gliders will perform differently when using spoilerons. My Specter 1800 needs a little down elevator when the spoilers are up while my ASW 28 needs a little up elevator. Both of them will make a "harrier landing" if there's any wind to speak of but, when there's no wind to help me out, I use the prop to slow them down. If the wind is from the wrong direction and I have to make my landing approach from the end of the field with the trees then I can actually dive in without building too much speed and the lift killing effect of the spoilerons prevents me from simply ballooning and ending up at the far end of the field.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 12:28 PM
If it flies.....I can crash it
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United Kingdom, England, Preston on Stour
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordysoar View Post
Hi Guys
Instead of guessing about the two, engage those little grey cells

Flaperons and spoilerons are the lazy way to get results and the results are the same as any lazy action.... more lift (flaperons) or less lift (spoilerons).

But from reading your posts about your Dynamic, its neither that you want...you want brakes.

Added lift
Less lift
Brakes

Are any of those words spelled the same, do the sound the same?

I'm guessing not...to you or to me, then why bother to imagine that they might serve the same purpose?

Slowing the model down is a small component of both Flapersons and Spoilerson, but a very small component as you have found...but at the cost of aileron control.

Spoilerons when used as brakes, kill lift by removing camber and cause the model to speed up. IF the model is well balanced (don't confuse those letters as being the same as balanced, as one is done by measuring a spot on the wing while on a bench to get the model to teeter level with out tipping and one is done by flying). IF the model is well balanced and its stab to wing incidence is correct (that has to be there first if the model has a fixed stab with elevator). Then its possible to slow the model somewhat using Spoilers (or faux spoilers - Spoilerons) by flaring the nose of the model with elevator.

Flaperons when used as brakes, create lift by adding camber and cause the model to slow because of the increased drag. This can be controlled by using down elevator to speed the model up in order to keep it from stalling.
Doesn't sound like brakes.

Spoilers are great on the slope to keep the model from lifting during the approach but don't slow them down much.

Lets change the name from Flaps to Landing Brakes....seperate from the ailerons, they can be dropped 90 degrees quickly. That means they are not cambering the wing but instead are creating huge drag AND reducing lift.

The simple solution is to split your ailerons 60% flaps, 40% ailerons, install two more servos. Mix flaps with ailerons if you like for full span aileron (not needed) so that there is no change to the original model in flight.

Then set up the flaps so that your throttle stick pulled down drops the flap portions 60%+ down as you pull the throttle down....because you DO now have throttle.

The motor should always be on a slider, not a knob or a switch which can accidentally be actuated. Your model is an electric launch sailplane so there is no need for motor speed variation, on or off.

Which would you rather have, motor speed control or the ability to stop your model in your hand as it approaches? Like we do with our 4m contest ships?

Gordy
Why yes I did fly 3 completely different flying wings on the slope yesterday...and no none of them were made of rubber ;-)
that all sounds very accurate and thanks for going to length to explain, the only question i have is i do like to float around with throttle stick all the way back and your suggestion would cause the air brake to activate when doing so.
now i imagine you could easily assign a switch or slider for such functions but I'm cheap and only got a Dx6i and don't have that facility.

any ideas for the cheap gits among us......and don't say buy a better radio lol.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 12:32 PM
If it flies.....I can crash it
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United Kingdom, England, Preston on Stour
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post

electric gliders have another very effective braking system. If one hits just enough throttle to kick the prop blades out, without adding any thrust, the windmilling prop is a very, very, effective air brake.
.
Thats a great idea......I'll be testing that tomorrow.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 01:05 PM
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That pesky throttle.

I switch back and forth between gliders and powered planes so I like to keep the throttle on the left stick (mode 2). That way I don't have to think about it when I find myself in a crisis.

That being said; those with motorless sailplanes or those who use flaps and ailerons to change camber like to use the throttle stick for camber control. I use a knob myself but that's my preference. However, I am a firm proponent of using a proportional control for throttle even if you use a slider or a knob instead of the stick.

One reason for that is so one can use the prop as a brake. The other is that there are planes and conditions where an on/off throttle can cause problems especially for less experienced fliers. Some gliders can be a bit hard to handle, due to torque and/or pitching the nose up, if one uses full throttle at launch. Some gliders will drop the nose sharply if one simply turns the motor off suddenly. A proportional throttle will help with both of these. Another situation is when one finds oneself just a little short on a landing approach. It's advantageous to be able to add just a little thrust to stretch a landing approach rather than a sudden application of full thrust.

A programmable radio can provide endless combinations and it all falls to personal preference. Since this thread is for beginners I'll just say that whatever seems simplest and most intuitive to you is the best setup for you. Once you are comfortable with the basic handling of your glider you can start searching for the ultimate level of control. One can turn functions on/off with switches and assign controls to various knobs, sliders, sticks, and switches. And, of course, one can just use a basic radio with no extra channels and just use the windmilling prop as the only brake.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 03:34 PM
Ochroma Lagopus Tekton
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Blackstock, South Carolina
Joined Sep 2007
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very good Bruce! So, when does your book com out, I'll be sure to put it on my bookshelf right next to the Old Buzzard's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordysoar View Post
<snip>
PS, as far as trim and balance etc goes...houses fly just fine in Kansas with out any attention to those things. Put just about anything in lift and its going to go up. However, properly balanced will help your model tell you the truth about lift and sink, versus lying about airspeed changes.
Does this mean before I launch I should click my heels together three times?
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Last edited by Fly Wheel; Nov 12, 2012 at 05:53 PM. Reason: added second post/reply
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 04:35 PM
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I don't know if this thread will ever get long enough to make for a good book but, with all of these contributions, I'm hopeful that we will end up with a valuable resource.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 03:27 AM
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Australia, QLD, Townsville
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A few things I've read here have already happened when I've been flying, such as , sudden nose down when shutting off the throttle. I thought it might be the model. No big deal, but i ease of gently now.

Next i gotta sit down and work out how to set crow on radio.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 07:00 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
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Get a streamer... It will point to thermals.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 09:23 AM
WAA-08 THANK FRANK!
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Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States
Joined Jun 2002
6,924 Posts
Fly with a plan.

Before you launch, take a minute to feel the air - be aware of the prevailing winds and anything that could point out air flow to you. Flag poles, trees, birds in flight etc. Mentally file a flight plane before you let go... "I want be at top of climb over the edge of the field above those trees, then I will push farther into the wind at a 45 degree angle towards the far edge of the parking lot." Be open to exploring little bumps and twitches in between your planned way points.

On breezy days, fly into the wind at an angle and let the wind bring the thermal to you.

I like to wear shorts when weather permits. I get a lot of feedback by feeling the air as it moves the hair on my legs and ears. That may be too much information - but it's all true
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