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Old Oct 12, 2012, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Danny_l View Post
+1 The real problem is when pilots take off with a plane that is beyond their ability to manage.
Isn't that the truth. 30 years ago, I jumped into a low wing aileron plane after flying rudder planes. Handling was drastically different enough, that I shortly Figure-9'd it, rekitting it in all its glory.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 08:40 PM
Garfield is my Pilot
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I have a P-51 on the bench. I haven't gone crazy trying to get it flying only because I dont want to rekit it on the first flight. Prone to tip stalling, heavy metal flying, so get my flying skills honed, THEN I will fly it.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 04:03 AM
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Acdii,
take your time.
If I may suggest,

Fly a low wing trainer until you can do figures of 8 where the center of the 8 is over the cross Rwy (or a similar mark) and your circles are even and flown at a constant speed and altitude (do this into the wind and down wind).

Do this until you can do this repeatedly and make it look not as "just made it" but polished you will develop a good feel for the airplane.

Use rudder in your turns (as done in full scale flying) not just ailerons and elevator. using rudder will allow you to control how tight you turn without banking the plane excessively and will prepare you for the use of rudder in take-offs and landings, which is crucial.

Work on landings, try and get the plane to land in the first 3rd of the Rwy as close as you can to a pre-determined spot. this will further help you get a feel for a consistent approach. try and touch down on the main wheels and then let the tail settle, once it is on the ground apply (gently) up-elevator to peg the tail wheel on the ground and work on keeping the roll-out straight down the Rwy.

On Take-offs, get used to applying the power very gradually. this will help you get the plane under control with the rudder much easier than if you whack the trottle open and the plane veers violently to the left.

This leads to a dangerous situation (for the plane). the inexperienced pilot sees the plane running off the runway at a speed that looks to him as high speed, decides that he MUST get the plane off the ground before something else goes wrong and the pulls up-elevator.... the plane does get airborne and proceeds to tip-stall (War-birds are particularly prone to do this). in most instances this will result in the destruction of the plane.

I speak from experience. this happened to me when I maidened my H9 Spitfire.
I did manage to save it, just.

If I had not waited until I had ample experience before trying to fly it the results would have been a destroyed plane. the picture was taken about a second after the plane left the ground. if I had not had full rates, a strong motor and Full right rudder I'd not had a chance of saving it. Happily the plane is still in one piece and flying.

Obviously there are many other ways to enhance your flying skills, mu suggestions are just one way. the main point is not to rush and try to fly a plane until you are absolutely sure that you can manage if comfortably.

Brgds,
Danny
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 01:56 PM
Garfield is my Pilot
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Already doing all that! My turns are done mostly with rudder and opposite aileron so the plane turns almost if not flat. My landings are on the numbers, coming over the top of the corn rows too. I also do flat turns inverted, and starting to get lower to the ground when inverted. Been flying a 4*120, up until the wing snapped off and it did a death spiral. Building a new one from a kit instead of just getting the replacement fuse and wing from Sig. The ARF didn't hold together very well. I also have a T-34, which started as electric, converted to glow, and will make it electric once again. I was hoping the added power of a glow would improve its performance, but it flew the same.

I was finally relaxed and stating to perfect my loops doing Cuban 8's when the wing snapped off. However, all of my planes I did the maiden flights on, without any mishaps, so I am confident I can get the plane up and trimmed, and I really don't think I will have any issues flying the P-51, and once I learn its stall point, and what to look for as it approaches stall, I should be OK with it. I do that with all my planes, get it up high, then chop throttle and just keep holding up elevator and wings level until something gives. On my 4*, the nose drops, the Kadet it will drop left wing and nose, the T-34 drops either wing, and basically falls out of the sky. I'm thinking the P-51 will react the same. My Dewey, don't know yet since I only had one flight on it with the new engine, which resulted in a dead stick and picture perfect landing. Don't ask me why, but my Dead sticks are perfect every time. When I had the DLE20 on it, it would drop its nose. Its better balanced now with the Magnum on it, so I am not sure what it will do, if I ever get a chance to fly it again with the way the weather has been.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 04:28 PM
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Already doing all that! My turns are done mostly with rudder and opposite aileron so the plane turns almost if not flat. My landings are on the numbers, coming over the top of the corn rows too. I also do flat turns inverted, and starting to get lower to the ground when inverted. Been flying a 4*120, up until the wing snapped off and it did a death spiral.
Ouch!

Quote:
I was finally relaxed and stating to perfect my loops doing Cuban 8's when the wing snapped off. However, all of my planes I did the maiden flights on, without any mishaps, so I am confident I can get the plane up and trimmed, and I really don't think I will have any issues flying the P-51, and once I learn its stall point, and what to look for as it approaches stall, I should be OK with it. I do that with all my planes, get it up high, then chop throttle and just keep holding up elevator and wings level until something gives. On my 4*, the nose drops, the Kadet it will drop left wing and nose, the T-34 drops either wing, and basically falls out of the sky. I'm thinking the P-51 will react the same.
I think that is why Sig added a couple degrees washout (negative incidence) to the wingtips of their Kavalier, so the inner of the wing would stall before the tips, where aileron control was important. Noticed it on some of the other planes of mine from Lee Renauld to Hal Debolt also.

Quote:
My Dewey, don't know yet since I only had one flight on it with the new engine, which resulted in a dead stick and picture perfect landing. Don't ask me why, but my Dead sticks are perfect every time.
Practice.
You ought to try it with a rudder only plane. One learns to judge sink rate, rudder reaction (more rudder, nose drops, picking up speed), got to where I could put the plane within 10 feet of me.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 06:59 PM
Garfield is my Pilot
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I think the formation flying helps a lot too. We had 2 T-34's flying, mine and my friends, and decided to do some formation flying. It took us about 5 tries before we could get our speeds to match, but once we did, the rest fell into place.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 07:56 PM
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I think the formation flying helps a lot too. We had 2 T-34's flying, mine and my friends, and decided to do some formation flying. It took us about 5 tries before we could get our speeds to match, but once we did, the rest fell into place.
Nice going, I wouldn't feel as comfortable do that. Speaking of formations, couldn't but was reminded of this plane by Ken Willard (attached).
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 09:09 PM
Garfield is my Pilot
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Good communications between us, and a calm day made it possible, but man was it nerve wracking. We did one circuit ad that was enough!

Then we had a dog fight.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 10:37 PM
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75% of all RC planes I've ever had were tail draggers I'm used to everything being a pain to takeoff. Keeps me on my toes. Seriously, my Pete n Poke needs right rudder for the first 75% of takeoff, less and less as it speeds up, then in the last 20% of throttle right before it gets to flying speed and the tail wheel lifts, the right thrust kicks in and I suddenly have to give it left rudder to keep it from going off the side of the runway. If I ever get a nose wheel equipped plane its gonna be easy peasy.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Already doing all that!
If that's the case get that P51 in the air and show us some photos

I've composed in such way that a reader who is new to the Hobby will not get the wrong idea that flying a war-bird straight after a high wing trainer is going to be easy.

Brgds,
Danny
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 07:13 AM
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If that's the case get that P51 in the air and show us some photos I've composed in such way that a reader who is new to the Hobby will not get the wrong idea that flying a war-bird straight after a high wing trainer is going to be easy.
There is an advantage these days pilots have over the past. The flight model simulators can be readily had for a small amount of money including the USB R/C transmitter joystick assembly. These give the pilot the look and feel of the various aircraft prior to flying the real model.

Years past, we did not have this luxury. Thus, there was a graduated upgrade path, which ensured the progressing R/C pilot did not get in over his/her head. Thus in general, high wing trainer, to shoulder wing trainer, to a mild low wing, then on to more aggressive planes. Also, the plethora of small electric R/C has allowed one to enter the hobby and sustain it at minimal cost. The smaller models, although more susceptible to wind, are lighter in weight and if flown over grass, preferably tall grass, don't rekit themselves like the .40 sized planes weighing 5 lbs. or more.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 11:33 PM
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Thumper, you are right.
the Sim is of great advantage, but has some potential negative issues.

Seeing as the result of a crash in the sim is that the plane resets itself and you are ready to fly again the user can get into the habit of giving up as soon as the plane gets out of control, instead of fighting to regain control until it either crashes or he does regain control.

This can become a habit and cause the person to lose a plane that he may have been able to save if he tried until the last moment.

Brgds,
Danny
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 01:06 PM
Garfield is my Pilot
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The one thing the sim does have a problem with is perspective. Its my biggest complaint because you lose orientation quickly on the sim, but in RL its easier to keep perspective. If I flew my plane out to where it looks like it does in the sim, it would be darn near out of radio range!
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 02:49 PM
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The one thing the sim does have a problem with is perspective. Its my biggest complaint because you lose orientation quickly on the sim, but in RL its easier to keep perspective. If I flew my plane out to where it looks like it does in the sim, it would be darn near out of radio range!
Yeah every time I play with RF6 at the LHS, I never can figure out where the runway is as soon as I take off. There are probably some view options to make it easier, but the automatic following the plane view is confusing. IRL you can glance around and figure out where you are over the ground. Also even on full realism, everything in the sim flies soooo easy. If I was a noob and flew RF6 without flying a real plane first, I'd think I could handle just about anything.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 02:53 PM
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I know on RF4 I used a stationary view and that helped, at least it made the view a little more realistic rather than following the plane closely all the time.
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