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Old Oct 15, 2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Dillion View Post
Texas, please give us all the link of your blog.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1749010
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 03:52 PM
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Completed Wing

Don't you love the beauty of balsa construction?


On another Note, has anyone designed a functional aileron wing for the Bee. I know the one Andy designed out of pure pressure, doesn't get very good reviews. I'm thinking of designing one that will work.
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Last edited by Dillion; Oct 16, 2012 at 12:25 AM.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 04:05 PM
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What Andy C did was adapt the Speedy Bee wing to fit atop the Lazy fuselage rather than halfway up the Speedy fuselage. However you do it, you are stuck with a wing atop a very short and deep fuselage. As I proved with the Lazy Speedy, adapting the Speedy wing to take Lazy tips isn't that good an idea. The one thing that you'd need to stick with is keeping the aileron chord as per the Speedy - that does work. Narrower, you'd lose aileron efficiency, wider, you'd be loading the servos.

On the mechanical side, you'd need to keep the straight line through the aileron hinges, of course. As per the Speedy wing, that's pretty easy. If you went with a wing that was built flat on its bottom, you'd have to do a little extra to keep that straight hingeline.

What wasn't done with the aileron Lazy was aileron differential. I'd be looking at starting with something like 75% up throw, 25% down throw. That would be the easy way to eliminate any aileron reversal drag. The complicated way would be to look up, say, the offset aileron hinges on the Piper Cub and fit them to an aileron Lazy wing.

D
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 08:18 AM
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Hmm, I'm tempted to build an aileron wing for my Big Bee and try the Differential idea. I bet it would work!
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 01:12 PM
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When the aileron Bee wing came out, which was after the Speedy was released, trannies didn't have cute little screens, buttons and programming capabilities. Differential by mechanics isn't that hard, but requires some prior thinking and planning, plus is a little harder to charge the diff ratio once built.

D
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 03:42 PM
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Aileron Wing Idea

Okay, So hows this look so far? Not finished, primarily concentrating on the Aileron. OPEN TO SUGGESTION AND IDEAS.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 03:48 PM
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i would make the ailerons have more chord like the ones in the first picture in post #1. instead of a single servo, I would use two aileron servos mounted inline with the control horns. a computer radio would be the best option for tweaking/testing aileron differential. or with the double servos you could easily kick the horn out manualy to add mechanical differential. using a single servo seems like that would be hard to do. the servo work load will be reduced as well.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 07:53 PM
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wing

I think two servos is a great Idea. I'll go that route. As far as increasing, I need a bit more convincing. Right now that aileron comes out to 3" X 12". You think it should be large?
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 08:16 PM
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The regular Speedy aileron chord is 4-1/2". The ailerons' root is 4" from the fuselage side. The wide aileron chord compensates for that the end of the aileron is a substantial distance in from the wing tip.

Extending the aileron in towards the fuselage would not increase its efficiency by much, as the extra area would have little leverage, being so close to the model's centreline.

Would definitely recomend two aileron servos. I first did this on my original Four Star 40 electrocution in 1998 and have only built one model with a single aileron servo and torque rods since. It got a rapid conversion to two aileron servos after two outings...

Hope that helps

Dereck
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 11:31 PM
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Wing changes

I worked a little bit more on the aileron wing. I'm listening.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 08:58 AM
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What might show an improvement in some areas would be a regular TE to the wing. The basic Lazy Bee etc structure is done like that for ease of kitting and building, allied to being as tough as the proverbial 'old boot' (as my Grandmother would have said...) Efficiency of a near 1/4" TE is open to discussion amongst those who can spell 'aerodynamics' without moving their lips or using their iSpendPhone...

So while you're diddling with that Clark Y, 'Y' not go for the 'proper' TE rather than the 'BeeTE'?

Also, not sure about that 'dihedral brace' in the ribs image. If you build the wing as per the Speedy, with a flat top from tip to tip, you are effectively building in dihedral due to the tip being at the same height as the rest of the wing's top - look at the front view of your wing, draw a line from halfway up the thickness at the root to the extreme point of the tip, there's your 'dihedral angle'.

Adding dihedral at the centre joint would increase stability and secondary effect of rudder control - more roll - like the regular Lazy, but would also tend to reduce your ailerons' efficiency and possibly inflect a dose of reverse yaw due to aileron movement too.

Okay, spouting here. Dereck's rule of deciding on control surface area - "It is easier to make a large control surface move less than to make an inadequately sized control surface move a lot more'.

Which might explain why my dear old Four Star 40 had over 25% more rudder area than the kit came with...

Offered at the usual internet cost, of course.

D
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 09:01 AM
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I call all of this talk of 'improving' the Bee wing complete blasphemy! ;-)
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 09:59 AM
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Wing Design Lazy Bee

Texas, I am so sorry that we might of insulted your hero (Andy Clancy) but you must admit, no one has given the aileron wing a good review. I read one guy tapped his ailerons shut and was sorry he built the wing. SOOooooo I love this little Bee, but I also fly much better when I have a little aileron to help me make a turn. I've only been flying for five years. Sorry Texas.

Dereck, your saying to design the wing as other designers standards are. Here are some photos from thee Piper J-3 Cub 60 size.

I can go with this but keep the charm of the big fat wing and those wonderful Wing Tips we all associate with our beloved Bee's
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 10:08 AM
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shun the non-believer shuuuun shuuuuuuun! ;-)
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 10:43 AM
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New Wing Design

Oh I do believe, but not every Great Designer gets it right every time. Shall we look at the Platypus? lol


I redesigned the layout, using the shadow drawing method I have seen used to show parts shapes. This uses the Piper Cub wing design method better.
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Last edited by Dillion; Oct 17, 2012 at 10:50 AM.
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