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Old Sep 13, 2012, 09:25 AM
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Dillion's Avatar
United States, PA, West Chester
Joined Oct 2007
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Lazy Bee New Aileron Wing

I'm planning to Build a Lazy Bee enlarged to 125%. I plan to keep the fuselage as designed. On the other hand, I'm not a real fan of 3 channel planes. So I have looked into what is available for wings with ailerons. Andrew Clancy designed a wing with ailerons, but no one seems to like the performance of this wing. This stems from the fact the original wing was old school design. The wing adds dihedral by elevating the wing tips. I want to use a more contemporary design. The current trainers use a center dihedral configuration. Ailerons are much more effective this way. I also want to use a know airfoil. I don't know what airfoil Andy used, but it sure looks like he designed it himself. I think with all the great airfoil designs out there, I can choose one that will allow the plane to fly very slowly. I chose the NACA 6412 which is slightly under cambered
.
What I'm asking of everyone is do you think the center dihedral wing is the best idea and a more coefficient airfoil with Under Camber work to create a slow flyer? Any suggests you may have would greatly appreciated.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 09:43 AM
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FlyingW's Avatar
Long Valley, NJ, USA
Joined Dec 2001
1,693 Posts
Dillon,

Can't wait to see how your Bee wing modifications work. Your new airfoil selection looks very appropriate. I think the regular dihedral will work fine, but probably not too much different than the original approach. The undercamber will certainly enable a slow flying plane. while I never flew a Bee with ailerons, I've heard that they do not add much. The full-flying Bee rudder is amazingly effective. Bee experts like Dereck Woodward (search RCG for his Bee experiences) have flown rolling circles with Bees on rudder and elevator alone.

The drawing that you called the "newer design" is actually from a different Clancy mid-wing Bee variant called the Speedy Bee. Yes, please keep the laminated bowed tips - you'll be glad you did.

You may want to link this to one of the long-standing Bee threads in the Sport Planes section. There's a pretty large Bee lovers club out there.

Lazy Bee:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=lazi+bee

and Speedy Bee:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1308452

I'm sure there are many others, but these are a good start.

Interesting project, thanks for sharing,

Paul
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 10:22 AM
Balsa Dust and CA Fumes
Dillion's Avatar
United States, PA, West Chester
Joined Oct 2007
150 Posts
Tapered Wing Tip

I noticed on the internet that many of the Bee's use the tapered wing tip you refer to as from the Speedy Bee. But Yes I will keep the Bowed wing Tip.
So you agree the new Airfoil will work better to accomplish the very slow flyer I'm after.

Do you think the ailerons need to be that wide? I think it could be narrower.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:23 AM
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FlyingW's Avatar
Long Valley, NJ, USA
Joined Dec 2001
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Wide with less throw is better than narrow with more throw - less drag. Of course, one does not build and fly a Bee if one is worrying too much about drag.

The only reliable way to know if the airfoil is better than the original is to build and fly it.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:44 AM
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Staffs, UK
Joined Nov 2003
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You've already got a conflict because ailerons generally don't work too well at very slow speeds. The rudder is more effective because it has some airflow from the prop going over it.

And I'm not personally convinced that the extra complexity of the NACA 6412 will give you much benefit at the very low Re that Bees fly at....but you're right the LB is quite an old design and it "should" be possible to improve it. Many people have messed with the LB design before though most seem to have concluded that their "improvements" weren't .

Give it a go and please report back. It will be interesting to see the results and it's always possible that you've hit on a real advance.

Steve
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 05:17 PM
Balsa Dust and CA Fumes
Dillion's Avatar
United States, PA, West Chester
Joined Oct 2007
150 Posts
Enlarged Plans

I ran over to Staples Copy Center and had the Lazy Bee plans enlarged to 125% of Original. At 55c a square foot. The plans came out to nine dollars. Good deal. I'm ready to go. I have plenty of balsa to get started.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:01 AM
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Dillion's Avatar
United States, PA, West Chester
Joined Oct 2007
150 Posts
Begin construction

A new model is always exciting. I got the plans enlarged last night any started right in on construction. I always like to begin with the fuselage. Here are some photos of that construction. I would appreciate and input.

I have been wrestling with this circle cutter for over a month. I changed the circle cutter from a one piece block to a cutter block and platform. See my video at
Cutting Windows for Lazy Bee (7 min 11 sec)
Sorry it's so long, I have a new video program and just had to embellish the video. The point is I now can cut very nice two inch circles.
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 02:15 PM
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FlyingW's Avatar
Long Valley, NJ, USA
Joined Dec 2001
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Nicely done Dillion. That's probably how Andy Clancy did it for the original kits. Cutting those window pieces is probably the hardest part of the fuse so the rest should be good fun. Next hardest part will be finding appropriate wheels - Trexlers used to be the best choice but they have become prohibitively expensive, buts that's later on...

Attached photo may provide motivation; it's a 40-incher.

Paul
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 02:00 PM
Art Schmitz
United States, TN, Crossville
Joined Jan 2012
392 Posts
Dillon, you may wish to make things easy on yourself and provide for a simple hatch in the fuselage bottom to more easily access your servos.
I have built five 40", two 48", and one 60" LB's...all w/o ailerons.
Flew a Speedy Bee and a Stagger Bee and can tell you that they both fell FAR short of my 40" Magnum .15 powered Bees with double rudder throws.
art
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 04:11 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Okay, you didn't think I'd stay away from a Beesite, did you?

Starting with the radio! I built my firstBee with the servos where they're shown on the plan Fortunately, I made up and sorted out the pushrods before I covered the model, because I found I couldn't actually reach inside the fuselage to where they were seated.

Given that 125% will give you a little more room to grapple with little screws and the like, my subsequent five Lazy Bees all had the RC gear moved up to the upper fuselage longeron!

If you like the wood/wire pushrods off the plan, they can be fudged to work with the servos up there - been there, done that. You could have them exit the fuselage above the tailplane for less bending and sloping. The presentBee uses my favourite Sullivan Goldenrods and they work fine with a gentle S bend to exit under the tailplane in the plan positions, more or less.

If you really are driven to have the servos down in the basement ands unseen, I'd look at mounting them inverted with an bottom access hatch.

In the fuselage bottom - some people

I also discovered a way to avoid having to cut out those circular windows, but that may not appeal to all.

This is perhaps my most radicalBee of all six. The nose is heavily altered to take a front mounted Astro geared 020 brushless, which is a noisy little puppy of 'adequate " power and it's also cowled. Which I promise to finish off this winter after a slight gap of around three years since first test flights...

Aerodynamically, it's otherwise to plan. It does have Trexler wheels, which the LBOC (Lazy Bee Owners Club) did take very seriously once, but now they've passed $30.00 a pair, we may have to slacken off some. I have some regular model airplane foam wheels on my LazySpeedy Bee and it hasn't fallen out of the sky because of them yet...

Getting the Lazy laminated tips to agree with a Speedy wing and ailerons was not a lot of fun and I wish I'd not bothered. I have a Lazy aileron wing in a box somewhere - it's a Speedy Bee wing modified to fit atop a Lazy fuselage. Perhaps I should take a day or two this Chicago 'building season' (IE, going flying outdoors could involve hypothermia!), build the thing and see how it handles.

Art is correct - the Lazy Bee is a wild and unusual experience as it comes out of the box. Your 125% should be somewhere between the wildness of the original Lazy Bee at 40% and the somewhat more amiable Big Bee. The wing section change will be watched closely - the original owes a lot to that flat bottom matching the fuselage's flat top, after all.

Some folk found that the Bees tend to pitch down hard if given a big push of down elevator - more a rotation than a curved manuevre - but you can have a lot of fun with it if you know it's going to do that and practice high up at first. It's to do with the airflow off that wing section moving down, impacting on the tailplane and making it suddenly more effective, I think (though anyone who can spell 'aerodynamicals' without having to move their lips and use a finger may have a better explanation).

What the heck. I can't even build my own designs without changing stuff - and I'm on my sixth Lazy Bee! Not sure what, but that must say something

D
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 04:18 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
In the meantime, here's where it started online:

http://lazybee.welcomes-you.com/

Nothing to do with Andy Clancy - am still working on getting up with him, as he's coming back into our hobby in some as yet unknown way - but he did approve of this site and there's still a lot of valuable Bee stuff on it.

There's also a surprising amount on Youtube about the Lazy Bee. It won't go away...

D
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 06:27 PM
Registered User
Wallingford, Ct
Joined Sep 2001
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Was wondering how long it would take.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 02:17 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
I can smell a Bee from miles - have an app for that these days too

Have a think about joining the main fus sides from the tail end, then adding the front end short side pieces. IIRC, you can do it over the fus plan view.

My presentBee has a wider nose in plan view thanks to the width of former needed to take my odd choice of motor. The change in shape in plan is much easier to do post rear end construction than to two completed sides.

D
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