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Old Sep 18, 2012, 10:46 PM
"Free" in Christ!
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United States, CA, SF
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Originally Posted by 3DDFHobbies View Post
Wingspan is 32inches or 812mm and Fuse length is 885mm or 34.8 inches

K

P.s this project's prototype and getting it production ready..Will be majorley Delayed because my now Ex-Girlfriend Rinsed my Paypal Account..!
Is the fuselage length to the tip of the rudder?

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Old Sep 19, 2012, 12:55 AM
Inspired by the wings of an An
Andycap's Avatar
Leeds
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Originally Posted by Free View Post
Design and weight???

Don't you mill to save weight?

Maybe you misspoke?

Free

P.S. "3DDF", what's the fuselage length on the Banshee?
Try it yourself.

Build two identical models in terms of external shape and size one milled one not. Power it with exactly the same equipment and balance it at exactly the same point. Add weight to the CG of the lightest of the two until they weigh exactly the same. Now flight test them! The milled F3P model will fly slower (dare I saw better too)

Remember Drag is lift and all the milled areas add drag. So for the same flight speed we have more drag, so we have more lift. At lower speeds we have more drag still and more lift so you can fly slower and still keep the model in the air
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 05:32 AM
Mr. Foam, Tape, and Carbon
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Joined Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andycap View Post
Try it yourself.

Build two identical models in terms of external shape and size one milled one not. Power it with exactly the same equipment and balance it at exactly the same point. Add weight to the CG of the lightest of the two until they weigh exactly the same. Now flight test them! The milled F3P model will fly slower (dare I saw better too)

Remember Drag is lift and all the milled areas add drag. So for the same flight speed we have more drag, so we have more lift. At lower speeds we have more drag still and more lift so you can fly slower and still keep the model in the air
I don't know if I'd call it lift. But a plane will definitely have more drag and fly slower with the milling. What that stuff is gonna do is slow down the plane when it gets into any kind of falling maneuvers. My somewhat heavy planes with a low ish wing area (for freestyle and crazy roll rates) fly REALLY slow, till you point them down. Then they slip through the air REALLY fast. I have had a milled plane but have not flown it in years so I don't really remember that much. You could be right. But pretty sure the milling just adds drag to the model that allows it to fly at a more constant speed overall. Plus the air will get less "Sticky" on the surfaces allowing it to fly a little more graceful. Less bumpy. This is because of the pockets of turbulence in the milled airplane.

Chris G.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 10:26 AM
Fly it like you STOL it!
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United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post
Is the fuselage length to the tip of the rudder?

Free
yes
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 10:29 AM
Fly it like you STOL it!
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United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andycap View Post
Try it yourself.

Build two identical models in terms of external shape and size one milled one not. Power it with exactly the same equipment and balance it at exactly the same point. Add weight to the CG of the lightest of the two until they weigh exactly the same. Now flight test them! The milled F3P model will fly slower (dare I saw better too)

Remember Drag is lift and all the milled areas add drag. So for the same flight speed we have more drag, so we have more lift. At lower speeds we have more drag still and more lift so you can fly slower and still keep the model in the air
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCvehicleGuy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andycap View Post
Try it yourself.

Build two identical models in terms of external shape and size one milled one not. Power it with exactly the same equipment and balance it at exactly the same point. Add weight to the CG of the lightest of the two until they weigh exactly the same. Now flight test them! The milled F3P model will fly slower (dare I saw better too)

Remember Drag is lift and all the milled areas add drag. So for the same flight speed we have more drag, so we have more lift. At lower speeds we have more drag still and more lift so you can fly slower and still keep the model in the air
I don't know if I'd call it lift. But a plane will definitely have more drag and fly slower with the milling. What that stuff is gonna do is slow down the plane when it gets into any kind of falling maneuvers. My somewhat heavy planes with a low ish wing area (for freestyle and crazy roll rates) fly REALLY slow, till you point them down. Then they slip through the air REALLY fast. I have had a milled plane but have not flown it in years so I don't really remember that much. You could be right. But pretty sure the milling just adds drag to the model that allows it to fly at a more constant speed overall. Plus the air will get less "Sticky" on the surfaces allowing it to fly a little more graceful. Less bumpy. This is because of the pockets of turbulence in the milled airplane.

Chris G.
I shall test this Out..
You have given me alot to think about...
K
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 12:32 PM
Inspired by the wings of an An
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Leeds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCvehicleGuy View Post
I don't know if I'd call it lift. But a plane will definitely have more drag and fly slower with the milling. What that stuff is gonna do is slow down the plane when it gets into any kind of falling maneuvers. My somewhat heavy planes with a low ish wing area (for freestyle and crazy roll rates) fly REALLY slow, till you point them down. Then they slip through the air REALLY fast. I have had a milled plane but have not flown it in years so I don't really remember that much. You could be right. But pretty sure the milling just adds drag to the model that allows it to fly at a more constant speed overall. Plus the air will get less "Sticky" on the surfaces allowing it to fly a little more graceful. Less bumpy. This is because of the pockets of turbulence in the milled airplane.

Chris G.
If the plane is flying slower Chris what is keeping it in the air? Most noticeably a milled model flies with a lower angle of attack from my experiments!
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 07:29 PM
RC = Empty wallet
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The less drag you have, the more lift you will gain. Passed a certain angle of attack the only thing that keeps you flying is the thrust(provided it can overcome weight)
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 07:31 PM
Mr. Foam, Tape, and Carbon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andycap View Post
If the plane is flying slower Chris what is keeping it in the air? Most noticeably a milled model flies with a lower angle of attack from my experiments!
Why, magic of course! I am surprised it would create any more lift. See? I am learning lots of neat things from these F3P guys!
What about inverted? I cannot imagine a lift increase being for both sides of the plane.
I would like to figure out why milling does that, all I can see is more drag offering a more consistent flying speed.
A milled plane might fly slower simply because of more drag, an unmilled plane doing the same angle of attack I imagined would be similar to the point of not really being important. But if the milled model has a lower angle of attack like you said it must be creating lift somehow? But what would increase the speed on the top of the wing? I guess all the milling divets below the wing might slow the air underneath down, making that higher pressure. But what happens inverted? Surely it must have a negative lifting effect inverted? Either that or maybe it is magic.
Have any inquiries? Why do you think it has more lift, a milled model I mean.
Or maybe the milled model is lighter. Did you weigh two of the same models and do this test? I might have to do something like this someday. You have got me interested. Perhaps it is some sort of magic happening with the propeller's slipstream, maybe it is easier for the air to go down the plane due to a golfball effect of the milling? I think that is kinda pushing the boundries of the reason it get more lift though.

Chris G.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 01:47 AM
Inspired by the wings of an An
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Leeds
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Flat plate aerodynamics at the Reynolds numbers we fly are are not studied. So unless you want to do some CFD lets not worry about lift / drag ratio's.

Build a milled model for F3P and you will never look back, thats all you need to know. The same I believe will apply to the mylar covered models too
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 05:27 AM
Mr. Foam, Tape, and Carbon
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Thta was the idea, I have no machine that can do milling so I was just gonna go for a saran wrapped plane with a simple color scheme. I should probably get a zero coupling airframe first...

Chris G.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 11:04 AM
Inspired by the wings of an An
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Leeds
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Originally Posted by RCvehicleGuy View Post
Thta was the idea, I have no machine that can do milling so I was just gonna go for a saran wrapped plane with a simple color scheme. I should probably get a zero coupling airframe first...

Chris G.
It might not behave the same when milled though so just get it close.

As for milling a domestic router for general woodwork will work very well for basic experimentation. Might seem a little harsh but it really does work, Ive used one to make living hinges in depron with a v cutting bit
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 03:22 PM
Mr. Foam, Tape, and Carbon
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Originally Posted by Andycap View Post
It might not behave the same when milled though so just get it close.

As for milling a domestic router for general woodwork will work very well for basic experimentation. Might seem a little harsh but it really does work, Ive used one to make living hinges in depron with a v cutting bit
I've heard a router used for this before....
Believe it or not I am actually building some planes in my Tech class this year and have access to a router... Might have to try this for milling.
V bit for a hinge seems like I might get a little crossed up. I know from previous builds that you're screwed if that hinge is not PERFECTLY straight. A Knife against a straight edge seems to provide the most consistent results. I get little waves free hand though.
I do the beveling free hand. That is very reliable and I can leave a little bit of foam left so I have a foam and tape hinge. Kinda neat but not necessary.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 03:30 PM
Fly it like you STOL it!
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For the Banshee to be a milled plane all i have to do i add the milling Shapes to The CAD drawings
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 03:33 PM
Inspired by the wings of an An
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Leeds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DDFHobbies View Post
For the Banshee to be a milled plane all i have to do i add the milling Shapes to The CAD drawings
I think you may have a nasty surprise ref the price of the milling unless its a friend doing it as a favour
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 03:35 PM
Professional idiot
Hampshire, UK
Joined Jun 2002
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Nice if you have your own CNC mill :-)

I've had a few things CNC cut commercially and quite cheap as very little tool time involved. As soon as I had milling done the time goes up and the cost was getting silly.

Andy has his own machines. The way to go.

Dave
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