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Old Oct 18, 2012, 09:33 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckTseeker View Post
great flight vids again Joel, so is the general consensus that this S-bach is more powerful than the first as i summarized in my maiden flight vid? anyone worked out why yet?
one thing i do know is i love this plane it is getting a lot of flight time from me thats for sure

cheers chuck
Hey Chuck - thanks for the compliments! And yeah - my Sbach 3D is noticeably more powerful than either of my V1s. I'm looking forward to shooting a comparison video of the Sbach 3D vs. Beast 3D in the wind - similar to my comparison video of the V1B vs. the B3D in a 17 MPH wind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCBABBEL View Post
Joel,

Just another reason why I have such high hopes for the new Hyp (2S) 400.

Hyperion says my long overdue B/O should ship on Friday.
You should have one to test before the snow flies.

rc
Very cool! Looking forward to testing it. So far, the TP 325s are my favorites for big-sky flying at the club field, but I prefer the Hyp 240s for short-field work, such as flying in my yard. The Hyp 500 seems to be just a bit much for anything but flying in higher winds and sport-flying. Like you, I'm thinking that the Hyp 400 will be the ticket for those who are looking for the best performance they can get in a factory UMX pack, and your lightweight version should be great for those who want to experience the full capabilities of the aircraft. At 23.47g, the factory 400 pack is 2.7g heavier than your lightweight TP 325s, but it's about 3g lighter than your lightweight Hyp 500s. BTW - what's the weight of your Hyp 400s?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brushless55 View Post
has anyone put a tach on this motor vs the V1 version?
Here's my data on the V1:

RPM taken under natural light with a calibrated optical tach, 30 sec into each run on a freshly-charged pack:

V1 Sbach
Motor: stock
Elevation: 910 ft AMSL
Temp: 70 F

-------- Eflite 180 - Hyp 180 - Hyp 240 - Thrust (g)* - Speed (MPH)**

Eflite V3 --- 9,570 ---- 10,400 -- 10,560 --- 80/96/99 ---- 24.9/27.1/27.5
Eflite V4 --- 9,510 ---- 10,380 -- 10,530 --- 79/95/98 ---- 24.7/26.8/27.4
GWS 5030 - 9,960 --- 10,860 -- 11,000 -- 96/115/118 -- 28.3/30.8/31.3
GWS 5043 - 7,900 ----- 8,540 --- 8,880 --- 84/99/108 --- 32.2/34.8/36.2

*Calculated using the GWS prop spreadsheet
**Calculated pitch-speed. Prop slippage and in-flight unloading not taken into account.

For a comparison, here's my data on the Beast 3D with the stock 2500Kv motor:

I managed to get some static RPM data on the 5030 & 5043 before it got too dark for my optical tach. As usual, each reading was taken under natural light - 30 seconds into the run on a freshly-charged pack. See below:

Elevation: 910 ft AMSL
Temp: 70 F

--------------- Hyp 180 --- Hyp 240 - Thrust (g)* - Speed (MPH)**

GWS 5030 - 10,740 ---- 10,780 -- 112/113 ------ 30.5/30.6
GWS 5043 -- 8.400 ------ 8,880 --- 96/108 ------- 32.2/36.1

*From the GWS props spreadsheet
**Calculated pitch-speed. Slippage & in-flight unloading not taken into account.

I plan to test the S3D today with the stock & 5030 props, a Hyp 240, TP 325, and Hyp 500. All of my Hyp 180s are well-past the 200-cycle mark, so I won't be testing with the 180s this time around.

Joel
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Last edited by turboparker; Oct 18, 2012 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Added Beast 3D data
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 09:35 AM
Power Wheels Guru
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Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
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From the beginning I thought the SBACH was stupid (what is an Sbach, anyway.. why not a Warbird) and overpriced, but fly one with AS3X and you will think this is THE GREATEST MICRO PLANE EVER.

With the new lower price and $4 batteries available from multiple vendors, this plane is a must have in everyone's fleet.

This is the plane everyone thought the Original SU-26m would be when we first saw the videos 4 years ago... then we realized we weren't Professional World Aerobatic champions and could do none of that stuff with the Sukhoi. This plane will do that stuff.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 11:13 AM
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USA, CA, Chico
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Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
From the beginning I thought the SBACH was stupid (what is an Sbach, anyway.. why not a Warbird) and overpriced, but fly one with AS3X and you will think this is THE GREATEST MICRO PLANE EVER.

With the new lower price and $4 batteries available from multiple vendors, this plane is a must have in everyone's fleet.

This is the plane everyone thought the Original SU-26m would be when we first saw the videos 4 years ago... then we realized we weren't Professional World Aerobatic champions and could do none of that stuff with the Sukhoi. This plane will do that stuff.
+1 here!!
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 11:14 AM
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United States, CO, Longmont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post


Here's my data on the V1:

RPM taken under natural light with a calibrated optical tach, 30 sec into each run on a freshly-charged pack:

V1 Sbach
Motor: stock
Elevation: 910 ft AMSL
Temp: 70 F

-------- Eflite 180 - Hyp 180 - Hyp 240 - Thrust (g)* - Speed (MPH)**

Eflite V3 --- 9,570 ---- 10,400 -- 10,560 --- 80/96/99 ---- 24.9/27.1/27.5
Eflite V4 --- 9,510 ---- 10,380 -- 10,530 --- 79/95/98 ---- 24.7/26.8/27.4
GWS 5030 - 9,960 --- 10,860 -- 11,000 -- 96/115/118 -- 28.3/30.8/31.3
GWS 5043 - 7,900 ----- 8,540 --- 8,880 --- 84/99/108 --- 32.2/34.8/36.2

*Calculated using the GWS prop spreadsheet
**Calculated pitch-speed. Prop slippage and in-flight unloading not taken into account.

I plan to test the S3D today with the stock & 5030 props, a Hyp 240, TP 325, and Hyp 500. All of my Hyp 180s are well-past the 200-cycle mark, so I won't be testing with the 180s this time around.

Joel
awesome, thank you for posting

I got my Nano 300mah 35/70c packs yesterday and today the weather is looking very nice.. but I have a busy day at work so......
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 11:16 AM
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Think this plane might actually make you look better than you a actually are!! At least it does for me. :-)
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 11:37 AM
when down=up, up=expensive
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United States, VA, Roanoke
Joined Apr 2012
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Originally Posted by airman74 View Post
think this plane might actually make you look better than you a actually are!! At least it does for me. :-)
sssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 11:40 AM
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Joel do you happen to have a 5043 to test with?
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 12:35 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brushless55 View Post
awesome, thank you for posting

I got my Nano 300mah 35/70c packs yesterday and today the weather is looking very nice.. but I have a busy day at work so......
You're welcome! BTW - I added my Beast 3D data for comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyMatt View Post
Joel do you happen to have a 5043 to test with?
I do. However - the 5043 preformed dismally on my V1 Sbach & Beast 3D both in static & flight-testing, and the stock prop seemed to outperform the 5030 in my Sbach 3D flight-tests. I don't expect that the 5043 will perform any better in this app, but I'll do an abbreviated test with a Hyp 240.

Joel
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 01:15 PM
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United States, CO, Longmont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
You're welcome! BTW - I added my Beast 3D data for comparison.



I do. However - the 5043 preformed dismally on my V1 Sbach & Beast 3D both in static & flight-testing, and the stock prop seemed to outperform the 5030 in my Sbach 3D flight-tests. I don't expect that the 5043 will perform any better in this app, but I'll do an abbreviated test with a Hyp 240.

Joel
thanks again..

OK BABY!
not sure if its just me, but this as3x makes landings a bit harder for me
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 01:26 PM
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United States, CA, Mt Shasta
Joined Jun 2010
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Come in slow, point it slightly downwardwith a touch of down elevator and let the AS3X lock it in, throttle little less than1/4. Don't float in and cut throttle, it will "plop and squeal". I had to read up and run through 2 batteries doing low fly bys, touch and go's. Hard to practice when what you want to do is to point it towards the sky and rip.
Mike
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 01:30 PM
when down=up, up=expensive
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BL - It isn't just you. Not sure if ground effect kicks in and throws the Gyro off, or if something else is at play, but it seems like at exactly 1 foot off the deck, earth repels this plane. . . .until you come down on the prop.

I'm no expert, but thanks to (arrgh, can't remember who to credit), I rarely hit the prop anymore. Here's the ticket that seems to deliver some really nice, consistent, greased landings:

1) Keep a negative attitude. No, not you - the plane! keep that nose pointed DOWN as long as possible. Once it starts doing that tail-squatting thing, it you have to go into "alternative landing" mode (see below).
2) when you get a foot or two off the deck, let the nose level out a bit and watch the plane closely, if it is still dropping vertically, apply power (you may be surprised by how much it can take and still descend).
3) Pour on plenty of backstick when you are about a foot off the deck. you'll be in high alpha at this point, so don't be afraid to give (even more) throttle. If I did this with my GeeBee, it would be disasterous - the GeeBee would shoot up into the air. The Sbach doesn't. Even with power, the extreme elevator just seems to provide less lift and the thing settles down - sometimes tailwheel first.

Alternative landing:
If you do come in "flat" and you can see the tail wagging up and down as the gyro avoids tip stall, you've got to give it a significant amount of elevator and then significant amounts of power. Again, you're shooting to get into a high alpha position. Your entire goal is to keep the prop up and the tail down.


Not sure why this works for the Sbach - on any other airframe, even an AS3X equipped one, this would be a recipe for a nasty tip stall. On the Sbach, though, it's the recipe for a beautiful landing.

A few posts back, i posted a link to UNGN's video on the regular Sbach thread - watch his landings (it's a converted V1 with As3X) and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 01:31 PM
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United States, CA, Mt Shasta
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converted compared to new Sbach

So...anyone there that wants to compare your old Sbach AS3X conversion to your new shiny Sbach? I'm hearing the motor maybe a bit stronger, but that's it so far. Anyone?
Mike
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 01:32 PM
Have fun
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Joined May 2007
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Ive actually loved how AS3X affects landings. It holds the exact attitude you put it in. Set a tail dragger at the right attitude for a 2 wheel landing or a nice 3 pointer, and just adjust AOA with throttle and it perfect!
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 02:30 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brushless55 View Post
thanks again..

OK BABY!
not sure if its just me, but this as3x makes landings a bit harder for me
I don't think it is AS3X per se. The old Sbach also preferred power-on 3-point landings & so did the original Beast. In contrast - with the CC, it's relatively easy to land on the mains with the tail still flying during the roll-out. AS3X definitely affects the plane's behavior during the approach, but I don't think it actually causes the effects we're discussing. However, it may magnify them to some extent. But there is a solution:

Remember that when you're on approach, elevator controls airspeed, while throttle controls rate-of-descent. Set up your approach attitude (which controls airspeed) with elevator & then control the descent-rate with throttle. Resist the temptation to chase the descent-rate with elevator on the way down. AS3X will do its best to maintain the attitude last commanded all the way down to the deck. If you're coming in a bit slow, smoothly relax the elevator a bit. If you're coming in hot, ease back on the stick a bit to slow down. If it looks like you'll land a bit short, smoothly add a bit of power. If you're coming in a bit long, smoothly reduce power. If you master the above landing technique, you will be in command of your landings, and you'll be able to put most any plane right where you want it on the runway.

If you do full-stall 3-point landings as WWU described, the elevator stick will be nearly all the way back during the flare, and it will be all the way back as the plane settles into ground-effect just before touchdown. As we know, AS3X authority diminishes as stick-deflection increases & it is completely bypassed on a particular axis at full-stick. So, if you do full-stall 3-point landings, AS3X will have little effect on the plane's behavior in pitch during the landing.

Check out WWU's landing practice clip: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=553

Check out my touch & goes in the clip I posted on Tuesday - starting at the 8:30 mark: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=528

Joel
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Last edited by turboparker; Oct 18, 2012 at 02:50 PM.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 03:09 PM
when down=up, up=expensive
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Well said, Joel - it is amazing how much power you have to put on just before touching down. I'm finding that, the more I fly this thing, the more able to predict it's behavior (right about now is when jinxed myself and will crash due 100% to pilot error). I find that you have to pour the throttle on BEFORE the plane drops, otherwise it's too late and you hear that God-awful screeching noise when the prop strikes pavement.

By the way - NICE landing right there at the end of the video!
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