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Old Nov 26, 2003, 10:00 PM
Registered User
Baldwin City, kansas
Joined Sep 2003
162 Posts
GWS me 109 thrust angle

My 109 flew great the first two times. However I crashed it hard three or four times and now after repairs and ensureing ballance points are on the plane flys awkward. The plane wants to fly upward and to the left even after checking control surfaces and ballance points. CHeck out the pictures and tell me if Im wrong. Lots of down thrust and right thrust. The plane is looking rough from nose in crashes but it should still be good for more flights before I replace it with a new 109 or corsair/pt17. Look at the pics and tell me your thoughts. Am I wrong? Prop 9070 w/300 cdrive and 8cell nimh 800mah. Motor is still new. I have a new 350c but I dont want to destroy it until I get this licked. Thanks in advance for you help.
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Old Nov 26, 2003, 10:02 PM
Registered User
Baldwin City, kansas
Joined Sep 2003
162 Posts
here is a pic from the side of the 109.

here is a pic of the side.
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Old Nov 26, 2003, 10:04 PM
Registered User
Baldwin City, kansas
Joined Sep 2003
162 Posts
top view

top view
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Old Nov 26, 2003, 10:46 PM
two left feet
Austin, TX
Joined Aug 2003
1,091 Posts
That looks like plenty of down and right thrust.. are you sure the fuselage isn't twisted? Also, how is the elevator? Mine has bent upwards on the side where the control horn is.

But, as a survivor of many crashes (the nose is mostly lightweight spackle now, much of the foam is gone), my ME-109 flies as good or better than before! Or maybe I am just a little better at flying it. It was my first aileron plane.

me-109 "survivor"... still fly it nearly every day
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Old Nov 27, 2003, 01:38 AM
Registered User
Baldwin City, kansas
Joined Sep 2003
162 Posts
Busybee,

I see that your nose looks a lot like mine. Did you make an adjustment on thrust? I broke the stick loose on the last major crash so I thought I would then adjust the thrust angle. This is my first aeleron plane as well But I have not flown it in two months and I would like to try again this thanksgiving weekend (weather permiting). Any way thanks for the reply. But did you mean to say "that looks like plenty of thrust?" or "that looks like plenty TOO much thrust?". Thanks
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Old Nov 27, 2003, 12:38 PM
two left feet
Austin, TX
Joined Aug 2003
1,091 Posts
Yes, I did have to adjust my thrust angle because the nose had twisted. I just used the direction of the fuselage seam to place the motor stick straight, then imparted a very slight down and right angle when letting the epoxy dry. Even with that, I must add some right aileron trim for it to fly correctly (also wants to pull left)

But looking at your pics I thought that the amount of down and right was "enough" or possibly even "too much"... so if it is still rolling left and up I would doubt it's the thrust angle.

You might move the CG forward a few mm. Even if it is right on the recommended mark, you can get away with moving it forward a bit, that might help a bit even if you do nothing else.
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Old Nov 27, 2003, 12:59 PM
Registered User
Baldwin City, kansas
Joined Sep 2003
162 Posts
Busybee,

I agree with you totally. I am also upgrading the plane to the 350c motor for more power. My main problem now is I had to remove the mount stick to reset it. So now I am trying to refill the hole and set in a new mount stick. The previous stick was chewed down. Any way I am going to do the same as you to set the trust angle and hope for the best. Maybe weather permitting I can get the "black devil" back in the air.
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Old Nov 27, 2003, 03:57 PM
two left feet
Austin, TX
Joined Aug 2003
1,091 Posts
Prankster,

In the spitfire I am building now, I am trying to make some modifications so that it is not susceptible to the standard damage the GWS planes normally take.. and the motor stick breaking out of the foam (during the "one point" landings) is one of the big problems I am trying to get rid of.

I've decided to cut out the foam in the motor mount area, and replace it with some EPP foam I have laying around from packaging... it doesn't explode into foam bits, and has a little bit of "give"... I'm going to put about 1 sq in of it around the motor mount, hopefully will secure it and better absorb the shock if/when this thing comes down on the nose... I'll be posting some build pics soon, but if you are looking for a good way to mount the new motor, you might try it.
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Old Nov 27, 2003, 06:20 PM
Registered User
Baldwin City, kansas
Joined Sep 2003
162 Posts
ME 109 REMOUNT STICK

Here is what I am doing to remount the stick with the correct amount of right and down thrust.
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Old Nov 27, 2003, 06:25 PM
Registered User
Baldwin City, kansas
Joined Sep 2003
162 Posts
As you can see from the picture I am going to be rebuilding the box the stick sits in. I will then need to re-glue the top of the cowling back on. I think then I will spackle and touch up the paint. I have also moved the motor forward 3/8 ". I had to glue three quarters under the front nose to ballance so I hope to eliminate them and save the weight. The motor is the 350C.
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Old Nov 27, 2003, 08:35 PM
Crasherof all things foam
Indiana..near KY..YUK!!
Joined Nov 2003
262 Posts
On my Beaver I was not paying attention and smacked the side of the house with it...trying to land and keep the kiddos out of the runway....

Anyway, I popped the engine mount out of the foam tube and cracked it...I then took a old shopping card from Wal-Mart, cut the strips to fit, and lined the sides of the engine tube and the end of the tube with it, made sure that the proper thrust angle was maintained and then CA'ed it into place.

Using the GWS glue I re-mounted the stick and to this day not a problem with it....about 225 or so flights since...didn't even change the CG....
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Old Nov 30, 2003, 12:26 AM
Registered User
Baldwin City, kansas
Joined Sep 2003
162 Posts
me 109 "red Devil" reborn

I have finally finished rebuilding the 109 after several nose ins that I thought destroyed the plane. After reading so many posts from others that they had rebuilt thiers numerous times and were still flying I knew I could do it to. SO here you have it. THe original paint sceme had a black tulip on the nose and I have changed to a red tulip. Thanks for all your suggestions out there. Weather permiting I will re-maiden her tommorow. Wish me luck.
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Old Nov 30, 2003, 12:27 AM
Registered User
Baldwin City, kansas
Joined Sep 2003
162 Posts
another photo

Another photo of the "red Devil" reborn. (Based on Eric Hartman's plane)
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Old Nov 30, 2003, 01:56 AM
Does anyone hear a cat?
headless's Avatar
Tallahassee, FL
Joined Sep 2003
4,380 Posts
nice paintjob

The amount of down/right thrust would have been fine w/ a 350c i think but the 300c doesn't output enough torque to need that much -- my brushless e-starter had even more right thrust than your pic and it still pulled left

easiest way to keep nose ins from DESTROYING the mounting stick is to not epoxy it in -- use a screw/bolt/whatever to hold the mount in place... if you crash, the bolt will shred some foam as it gets slammed back, and the mount would normally shred foam directly behind it... epoxy where the screw shredded is easy to fill in and then you simply re-drill through the dried epoxy and re-screw the screw in -- this works shockingly well in my experiences -- i usually use 2 screws now.. the only problem is finding long enough ones Also, you need to cut the little black plastic pieces to make little mounting points for your bolt/screws/whatever so the screw head has a larger area to spread out it's force on (otherwise it just squishes the foam down)...

The way to keep the mounting stick from smashing foam out the back of the nose is... cut the foam out ! i cut the foam all the way back to the end out in the shape of the mount -- since it is screwed in, the only way it will slide down the shaft and into the plane is in a crash... which is a good thing as it relieves stress on the motor...

The only damage is the screw that shreds some...

I usually reinforce the entire tube you slide the mounting stick into, like so:

Wrap the mounting stick in seran wrap -- slather it with epoxy, slide it into the tube. Wait for the epoxy to harden up most of the way, then simply slide the motor mount out... the seran wrap/epoxy is now a PERFECT fit for your motor mount... slide it back in, screw it down...

works very well -- is also a great method of rebuilding the tube after a bad bad crash that destroys half the nose...
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Old Nov 30, 2003, 09:42 AM
Registered User
Baldwin City, kansas
Joined Sep 2003
162 Posts
thanks for the suggestion Headless

That is a great idea. I used the saran wrap method to epoxy a motor mount back together and it worked. The one thing a dont like is the battery hatch on the 109. The magnetic lock never worked so I reverted to a piece of velcro. Now I have three pieces of velcro and it holds it. However, the hatch never appears fully closed. I wish I could instal one of those sliding levers.
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