HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 11:54 PM
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modisc's Avatar
United States, MI, Ann Arbor
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Originally Posted by Ron H View Post
Those are not made in China, they are assembled there.
True. My bad
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 11:58 PM
Inspiration
modisc's Avatar
United States, MI, Ann Arbor
Joined Aug 2011
888 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by C₄H₁₀ View Post
As I said... If somebody could sell Castle/Neu equipment at HobbyKing prices, why are Patrick and Steve still in business?

In any case, trying to take legal action against the copiers would be nearly impossible from what I've heard. Apparently the laws work just a little bit differently in China.
Someone gives you a piece of bread for free, and you are afraid that it is poisoned. I am tired of explaining the details. I am only responsible for what I said about the materials quality. Judge its worth yourself.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 09:51 AM
Scratch builder
USA, PA, Telford
Joined Apr 2004
1,348 Posts
I'm afraid China has an uphill battle with the rest of the world when it comes to quality. They want to be the manufacturing giant but don't understand that when someone orders motors, (or whatever) they expect every piece to be in spec. That means materials and tolerances. Drawings aren't a GUIDE!

I work for a motor company in the US. and our owner forces us to out source parts from China. Many times we have no other choice but to re work out of tolerance parts because we can't economically return them. Or, we don't have enough safety stock. (another no no according to our owner ) Sometimes we just sort to find acceptable parts and throw the rest away.

Wise up China, if you want to manufacture for the world, then make ALL parts to print from the material shown!! Don't ask us how much do you want to pay for this motor and then cut costs to meet that price. Make it to the print instead and then tell us how much it will cost from you.

Sorry guys, this hit a nerve. I just can't swallow the title of this thread, in my world "China" can't be in the same sentence with "quality".
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Last edited by KenSt; Sep 19, 2012 at 12:57 PM. Reason: spelling, added last sentence
Old Sep 19, 2012, 02:43 PM
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modisc's Avatar
United States, MI, Ann Arbor
Joined Aug 2011
888 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSt View Post
I'm afraid China has an uphill battle with the rest of the world when it comes to quality. They want to be the manufacturing giant but don't understand that when someone orders motors, (or whatever) they expect every piece to be in spec. That means materials and tolerances. Drawings aren't a GUIDE!

I work for a motor company in the US. and our owner forces us to out source parts from China. Many times we have no other choice but to re work out of tolerance parts because we can't economically return them. Or, we don't have enough safety stock. (another no no according to our owner ) Sometimes we just sort to find acceptable parts and throw the rest away.

Wise up China, if you want to manufacture for the world, then make ALL parts to print from the material shown!! Don't ask us how much do you want to pay for this motor and then cut costs to meet that price. Make it to the print instead and then tell us how much it will cost from you.

Sorry guys, this hit a nerve. I just can't swallow the title of this thread, in my world "China" can't be in the same sentence with "quality".
Tell me why your boss order parts from China, even if you find the quality is as bad as you have described. What a simply reason. Why everyone is asking for high quality, while not willing to pay enough for it? I think no one is forcing you to buy low quality. Please tell your boss to wise up, or you boss will simply ask you to wise up and cut the crap and do the job.

It's like you are paying 1 dollar for a motor and complaining why the quality cannot compete with a Kontronik. It is so ridiculous.

You want high quality motors? How about 500 bucks for a HK4225 winded with single strand 1.4mm wire 6+7T delta, or a HK4035 winded with single strand 1.5mm wire 5+6T delta. Do the math of copper fill yourself.
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Last edited by modisc; Sep 19, 2012 at 03:22 PM.
Old Sep 19, 2012, 04:20 PM
Glow 😡 no no no
Australia, SA, Evanston Park
Joined Mar 2010
4,846 Posts
In my opinion, Chinese manufacturing will continue to improve, it will do what Japan did many years, I remember when products from Japan were called jap crap, now people think of Japan as a quality product, I was considering about 6 years ago about going to work in HongKong with a well known rc brand which is considered to be a quality product. The person I spoke to made it quite clear that his products were made in China under strict quality control.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 06:08 PM
We want... Information!
Bruce Abbott's Avatar
Hastings, New Zealand
Joined Jan 2001
5,192 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by modisc View Post
Next time you quote, please quote completely.
I quoted what I considered relevant, and linked to the full text. Was the quote out of context?

Quote:
Leopard is a Chinese brand, it has nothing to do with CC. leopard has its own trademarks, it is simply a different brand.
A different brand that looks identical - deliberately. But if they are not 'your' manufacturer then we can forget about them.

Quote:
For CC, go to their official website and look at the bottom, or buy one and see the bottom of the motor. Do not tell me you cannot see the words "made in China", or is it assembled in China? Or is it designed in California?
Location is irrelevant. The situation would be no different if we were discussing motors made in Mexico, California, or Greenland.

You say that your motors are Castle's, the exact same motors from the same OEM factory. Castle say that their motors are made in their factory, and that they don't OEM to anybody in China. Only one of these statements can be true.

Quote:
I said these are OEMs, CC has ordered motors from this company, and broke the contract, resulting in stocking or motors. And CC owes the company "some" money.
Those are serious allegations. I hope you can back them up...

Quote:
Frankly, check out CC motors and real Neu, do a simply comparison of their price. Please, save me some time to find the links for you. Please do not say again CC is Neu, I think Steve is not going to be happy.
Did you not read the linked thread? Castle pay a royalty to Steve Neu for every motor they make, because they are using his design. Castle are also a distributor for Neu motors. Are you suggesting that Castle went behind Steve's back, and gave his design to someone else so they can make them for free?

Quote:
I know copies, and I will state it very clear if it is a copy.
If it's a copy then we have trademark infringement/fraud/IP theft. If it's the real deal then we have breach of contract and/or failure to pay royalties. Which is it?

Quote:
Again, I am not selling these for a living or extra bucks. I bought two 4035 stators for my scorpion from them, and I am simply amazed by the quality and packing. That's why I am willing to do this Ad for them and may some of those who share the same interest with me will benefit. It is really irresponsible to make any of your assumptions without even knowing a bit of the truth.
Everything would have been fine if you hadn't implied that they were Castle motors. Now you are telling us that Castle break contracts, don't pay their bills, and lie about who makes their stuff!
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 07:42 PM View Post
modisc
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Personal Attack. It is temporarily hidden while modisc edits it. Show it to me anyway.
Old Sep 19, 2012, 07:45 PM
Wake up, feel pulse, be happy!
C₄H₁₀'s Avatar
United States, AK, Fairbanks
Joined Aug 2009
12,520 Posts
This is getting spicy
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 07:47 PM
I think I'm inverted. Maybe.
acetech09's Avatar
United States, CA, Pacifica
Joined Apr 2012
1,509 Posts
I can describe this thread as 'quote ping pong'.

Are these motors pretty the Suppo of the inrunner world? Cheap but solid and well-preforming inrunners? If so, it could be a welcome addition.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 07:52 PM
Wake up, feel pulse, be happy!
C₄H₁₀'s Avatar
United States, AK, Fairbanks
Joined Aug 2009
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Suppos are good, but they're still not Streckers, just like these inrunners might be good without being Castle or Neu motors.

If my buddy started selling red and silver Suppo-made motors and I insinuated that they were made by Mr. Strecker, that would be a problem.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 09:48 PM
Scratch builder
USA, PA, Telford
Joined Apr 2004
1,348 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by modisc View Post
Tell me why your boss order parts from China, even if you find the quality is as bad as you have described. What a simply reason. Why everyone is asking for high quality, while not willing to pay enough for it? I think no one is forcing you to buy low quality. Please tell your boss to wise up, or you boss will simply ask you to wise up and cut the crap and do the job.
"simple reason"
The company that owns us thinks buying from China is a good way to save money. They don't care about re worked parts because that shows up in a different category in the budget. Our purchasing department must do what they say, they own us and will fire anyone who doesn't do what they want.

"Cut the crap????"
It's not crap, I have no reason to lie, it's what we have to do.
I don't need to wise up, I'm not stupid. My boss is happy with my work. He doesn't like the "crap", as you call it, that we get from China either. The jobs we do has nothing to do with purchasing the parts, We just have to come up with a way to re work defective parts as best as we can.

Aeromaniac,
I don't think this will happen in China because there will always be some guy down the street willing to do it cheaper. The country is just too big. It will take a hundred years for the world to finance China's industrial revolution. The cities are modern but in rural areas there's still guys plowing fields with oxen and a wooden plow.

Some factories are modern while others still have a hose to wash yourself after you've pooped in a hole in the floor. (True story, Tom Griffin, our sales rep. circa 2003)

Some big companies go out into the country side and gather up poor people to come to the big city to live and work at the factory. (less wages) They become the lucky ones who can send home money to their families so they too can have a better life. It sad, really. (another true story from Chune, a girl in our assembly area, born and raised in China)

All we want is good quality motors and we are willing to pay more to get them. It's just wrong to pay, wait a month for shipping, and then the item doesn't work as advertised or not at all, right out of the box.

See http://www.rcgroups.com/hobbyking-441/ if you need proof.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 02:37 AM
Inspiration
modisc's Avatar
United States, MI, Ann Arbor
Joined Aug 2011
888 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSt View Post
"simple reason"
The company that owns us thinks buying from China is a good way to save money. They don't care about re worked parts because that shows up in a different category in the budget. Our purchasing department must do what they say, they own us and will fire anyone who doesn't do what they want.

"Cut the crap????"
It's not crap, I have no reason to lie, it's what we have to do.
I don't need to wise up, I'm not stupid. My boss is happy with my work. He doesn't like the "crap", as you call it, that we get from China either. The jobs we do has nothing to do with purchasing the parts, We just have to come up with a way to re work defective parts as best as we can.

Aeromaniac,
I don't think this will happen in China because there will always be some guy down the street willing to do it cheaper. The country is just too big. It will take a hundred years for the world to finance China's industrial revolution. The cities are modern but in rural areas there's still guys plowing fields with oxen and a wooden plow.

Some factories are modern while others still have a hose to wash yourself after you've pooped in a hole in the floor. (True story, Tom Griffin, our sales rep. circa 2003)

Some big companies go out into the country side and gather up poor people to come to the big city to live and work at the factory. (less wages) They become the lucky ones who can send home money to their families so they too can have a better life. It sad, really. (another true story from Chune, a girl in our assembly area, born and raised in China)

All we want is good quality motors and we are willing to pay more to get them. It's just wrong to pay, wait a month for shipping, and then the item doesn't work as advertised or not at all, right out of the box.

See http://www.rcgroups.com/hobbyking-441/ if you need proof.
Like i guessed, your boss will simply tell you to "cut the crap" and "do the job", if you complain about the "crap" you purchased from China.

Truly it is very simple. You just need to pay more to get quality stuff, and if you are not willing to pay that much, dont complain about the "crap" you get. It is totally free to make the choice.

what i mean by "cut the crap", is that your boss will simply tell you to shut up. and i mean he will tell you to mind your own business by saying "do the job". It is simply business and how to make money.

Everyone wants good quality. but when you cannot afford it, a cheaper stuff with lower quality is the option. If you are rich enough, i suggest you ignore any of my words, since you do not need to do any budget. Please, do me a favour, just focus on Neu and Kontronik.

I really dont understand why people complain about a motor that only cost one dollar. There is an old saying in Chinese: One who lives like a whore, still wants to be recognised as a lady. A very brutal saying, but quite appropriate sometimes.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:47 AM
I think I'm inverted. Maybe.
acetech09's Avatar
United States, CA, Pacifica
Joined Apr 2012
1,509 Posts
Sometimes, you chinese come out with better stuff than Americans. That saying is one of them .

(Meant in the stereotypical sense... sarcasm. It doesn't really matter where stuff is made. I think that the higher-end motors are made in the US, because if it's a higher-priced motor, they will have the money to pay for the higher labor in the US. The cheap stuff is made in china due to the lower labor costs there, since with cheap stuff, you're working with much smaller profit margins.)
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:48 AM
Scratch builder
USA, PA, Telford
Joined Apr 2004
1,348 Posts
My point about China's reputation for poor quality is valid and true. I tried to show through real life examples that in my case quality doesn't come from China. Here at work we are stuck between our owners who only want cheap and we really need quality. This has little to do with RC motors so I'm done with this example. You just don't get it. You have no clue what my boss does and says, and what is or isn't my "bussiness" This discussion is moot and your guess is just that and very wrong.

If you take offense to people like me criticizing China's work and qualitiy then show us what you can do!

All of these unhappy people can't be wrong. http://www.rcgroups.com/hobbyking-441/

Enough said, I am done with you sir.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:51 AM
I think I'm inverted. Maybe.
acetech09's Avatar
United States, CA, Pacifica
Joined Apr 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSt View Post
My point about China's reputation for poor quality is valid and true.
HA! HAHAH!!!!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=660918

See how many people are happy with those motors.
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