Originally Posted by slople

They are required BY LAW.

Have you ever been given a loser orphaned project at work? And told that your job depends on you making it work? After all the others have failed? And then being told that they didnt want any excuses whatsoever? Even then telling you that your entire dept has been informed that your evaluation will affect all their jobs and funding?

That the ex pres. cousin runs the evaluation program and so that is really what counts?

Tantrum is a lousy way to portray teachers fighting for their students access to a quality education, and fair treatment, conditions and compensations.

Oh that's rich .... If they were honestly concerned about the kids, they'd welcome the ability to hold bad teachers accountable .... Instead they're just concerned about keepi g their jobs ... So drop the 'it's all for the children' act .... You aren't fooling anyone and neither are they.

somehow, that 'quality education' ( I *love* the way liberals append 'quality' to everything in their service demands, as if saying it turns a **** sandwich into some delicious morsel) rests upon *not* having more tools to dump crappy teachers easier and being able to hang onto the union senority system till the sun dies.

I saw some of the interviews today from Chicago, and it is eerily similar to what word on the street was in Wisconsin. When the unions have pushed their luck so far that these 'progressive' bastions are full up to the eyeballs with excuses and demands for ever more money in spite of results, you know they have it coming.

And 'it' is not exactly more money and less accountability.

Originally Posted by LcJ

The is no excuse for the teachers' union to have allowed, with the control they have, the Chicago school system to get into the shape it is in. No excuse whatsoever and the union should be removed totally and then start over.

The union has NO control over funding. No control over their mandating. No control over parents involvement. No control over which students they accept. No control over class sizes. No control over standardized testing criteria.

Originally Posted by slople

The union has NO control over funding. No control over their mandating. No control over parents involvement. No control over which students they accept. No control over class sizes. No control over standardized testing criteria.

Thank heavens for small favors. If they had control over those demands too, we'd be looking a a world class reaming that makes the word keystone cops look like a redoubt of pure effectiveness and efficiency.

Originally Posted by logan5

Oh that's rich .... If they were honestly concerned about the kids, they'd welcome the ability to hold bad teachers accountable .... Instead they're just concerned about keepi g their jobs ... So drop the 'it's all for the children' act .... You aren't fooling anyone and neither are they.

That is the crux. They are charging that the testing criteria falsely identifies BAD TEACHERS. Falsely identifies failing schools. Falsely monopolizes class time.

Originally Posted by LcJ

And yes his plan should have been to shut the system down, fire the lot and then hire a superintendent worth a damn and let them create a real school system that valued the education of the children.

Shut the system down in the middle of a school year, illegally fire everyone (including the Superintendent), and "start over".

Now there is a workable plan!

All you'd have to do is be able to find enough teachers with credentials, (state law will require that), hire a BIG $$$ superintendent, etc.

Are all these talented teachers & Superintendents just waiting around looking for jobs? Or are the ones without jobs now the bottom of the barrel?

That may be the moronic post I've ever seen you write. And you claim to be a former school district "person"? Hmmm - makes me wonder, once again.

Originally Posted by slople

That is the crux. They are charging that the testing criteria falsely identifies BAD TEACHERS. Falsely identifies failing schools. Falsely monopolizes class time.

Of course they are. Everyone is against them, and none of it is their fault. If jill can't add, that because they had to 'teach to the test'. And failed. Horrors. What is on the test *should* monopolize class time because that's the important stuff.

So, you are a FEDS mandating everything kinda guy?

Originally Posted by MtnGoat

The wronger one, yes.

Is that one of the rules of the universe or just when it happens in Chicago?

Nope, I'm a teach to the danged test and quit griping that you don't have enough resources for a 'rich' curriculum kinda guy. Resources are limited. That's their essence. Learn to teach competence in the three R's and maybe a little more, and git 'er done.

So it's a no win situation on all sides except for the union which can't lose because it's not fair if they do. Great! So how does the system ever get fixed?

Originally Posted by slople

They are required BY LAW.

Have you ever been given a loser orphaned project at work? And told that your job depends on you making it work? After all the others have failed? And then being told that they didnt want any excuses whatsoever? Even then telling you that your entire dept has been informed that your evaluation will affect all their jobs and funding?

That the ex pres. cousin runs the evaluation program and so that is really what counts?

Tantrum is a lousy way to portray teachers fighting for their students access to a quality education, and fair treatment, conditions and compensations.

Do you feel politicians and yourself know more about how to educate than teachers and administrators? Bush Jrs. cousin is doing a heckuva job testing brownie.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz

Is that one of the rules of the universe or just when it happens in Chicago?

It's one of the rules of the universe. Say you're the Grand Mooslexitepular of System Argulon Nine Prime in Galaxy 2MASX J00482185-2507365.

If you're closer in your political agenda to Obama, you're still wronger.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz

So it's a no win situation on all sides except for the union which can't lose because it's not fair if they do. Great! So how does the system ever get fixed?

By allowing the experts, particularly at the local level, to have input on what the testing criteria is. How often it imposes itself. What extenuating circumstances exist. How to deal adequately with them. How to compensate for endemic deficiencies. How to FAIRLY identify those that would serve better functions elsewhere.

Originally Posted by slople

Do you feel politicians and yourself know more about how to educate than teachers and administrators? Bush Jrs. cousin is doing a heckuva job testing brownie.

On many basics, of course. Education today has become politicized to an immense degree, basically colonialized by leftist fad goobledygook. I've had a lot of info from teachers processed by the system who tell me it's unrecognizable if you expect results oriented outcomes with strict accountability and a harsh weeding of fads and pseudoscience. The nonsense I heard spewed at curriculum nights verified this. Attempting to make headway with local administration officials baking their cake with NEA hospitality and mindsets sealed the deal.

It's time for a reboot, and actual competition. The outcome of your 'experts' is kids facing remedial classes in college on stuff they should have mastered in junior high, and who can't find countries on a map.

I don't judge 'experts' by their titles or resumes. I judge them by their results.