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Old Nov 01, 2012, 11:48 AM
Foam Guy
Fort Collins, CO
Joined Jan 2011
145 Posts
Oh, and as others have noted in older posts - This thing glides forever. In the video, the landing phase is all power off and the motor noise is just the prop windmilling.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 02:53 PM
Never trust laughing dolphins
Joined Feb 2011
2,095 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cglusky View Post
Oh, and as others have noted in older posts - This thing glides forever. In the video, the landing phase is all power off and the motor noise is just the prop windmilling.
Thats awesome, I've got to get me one of those.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 06:46 PM
A trail of smoke is GOOD!
waynemia's Avatar
USA, TX, Springtown
Joined May 2008
7,226 Posts
A lot of progress today. The video will be available in a little while.

The elevons will have just a light coat of orange Fusion paint. I painted the winglets with fluorescent orange.

The only issue I ran in to on this part was the tape with 3M 77 is not sticking like it should. The bottom is a little better than the top. I tried using a bit more 77 but it did not help. Maybe it is the black foam? I have not had the problem before.

The real problem is the trailing edge. This will hold the elevons with hinge tape. If the tape does not hold, the hinges will be loose. I plan to run a covering iron over it and see if it helps. if not, I will have to remove some of the covering tape where the elevons attach and probably add some fiber tape.

Like I said, I have not had this problem using the packing tape before.

Flying Foam's Mothership EP, Build Log Part 4 (0 min 0 sec)
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 10:30 PM
Foam Guy
Fort Collins, CO
Joined Jan 2011
145 Posts
Great video Wayne.

I will do a test tomorrow between black/white EPP and 3M 77 and see if I can tell a difference. We have not had any issues that we could tell.
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 08:48 AM
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iwchris's Avatar
Isle of Wight (UK)
Joined Oct 2010
219 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by waynemia View Post
A lot of progress today. The video will be available in a little while.

The elevons will have just a light coat of orange Fusion paint. I painted the winglets with fluorescent orange.

The only issue I ran in to on this part was the tape with 3M 77 is not sticking like it should. The bottom is a little better than the top. I tried using a bit more 77 but it did not help. Maybe it is the black foam? I have not had the problem before.

The real is problem is the trailing edge. This will hold the elevons with hinge tape. If the tape does not hold, the hinges will be loose. I plan to run a covering iron over it and see if it helps. if not, I will have to remove some of the covering tape where the elevons attach and probably add some fiber tape.

Like I said, I have not had this problem using the packing tape before.

http://youtu.be/fIwO8j9PtuM
Thanks for the vid, I'm new to this type of build, so your vids are very helpful.
Thanks
Chris
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 09:18 AM
A trail of smoke is GOOD!
waynemia's Avatar
USA, TX, Springtown
Joined May 2008
7,226 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwchris View Post
Thanks for the vid, I'm new to this type of build, so your vids are very helpful.
Thanks
Chris
Thank you. I have done a number of these wings. The first one was a little confusing but it is really simple once you get over the unknowns.

I don't know what it is Coby. It is like there was a mold release on it or something but that is obviously not possible.

I will get it corrected though. Like I said, I may just have to open up the trailing edge and put some reinforced tape on. It will stiffen the trailing edge and the packing tape will stick.
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 08:01 PM
A trail of smoke is GOOD!
waynemia's Avatar
USA, TX, Springtown
Joined May 2008
7,226 Posts
I ironed the tape down some today. I set the iron to 150 at first but wound up at 300. It looks like it is on much better. I need to get the power system ready next. Once that is completed, the rest should go quickly.

Questions: What servos did you use? What pushrods did you use? I think it came with some 2-20 size metal rods. I am considering using CF. How much throw did you use? I am thinking 1/2" would be near maximum for standard aerobatics. Most of my other wings get to be hard to control if you have big throws. I was thinking about 1/4 to 3/8 for low rates and 1/2 to 5/8 for high rates. I would like to know what you used and if you needed more or less. I will probably put in a third "stupid" rate that is close to maximum. I do that on most of my planes. My wings are usually uncontrollable at that rate though.

Also, I have seen some wings get into a death spiral that is hard or impossible to get out of. I don't know if you have experienced any of that or snap rolling on high elevator input. I have been able to flat-spin some of my wings but it is hard to enter.

I like to get my wings doing multiple tight loops and hold it for five or six iterations. Also make a low approach to the runway and then hit full throttle and loop it. It will be interesting to see how much I can get out of this one. I am thinking I will put some kekychain cams on for the first couple of flights so I an monitor the elevons. I have three of them. I may also connect an eagletree to see what happens there.

I don't remember seeing the launch. I will recheck the video but how did you do the launch? We normally use the frisbee style but this thing may be too big.

Thanks,
Wayne
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Last edited by waynemia; Nov 02, 2012 at 08:12 PM.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 07:36 AM
More Pile-it than Pilot
mdennis's Avatar
Shawnee, Kansas
Joined Nov 2002
1,125 Posts
I put a couple of water bottle caps near the nose of mine so I could grip it kind of like a baseball. There is picture here

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=27


I hold the transmitter in one hand and lean down and pick it up by the nose with my fingers in the holes and my thumb on the nose. I take a step forward and throw it like a baseball, then I advance the throttle. Once it is moving, the tail will follow the nose like it is flying. Just give it a nice level toss, (not upwards, it will stall and nose into the ground before you can recover).

Important note: Once it is gliding and out of your hand, you hit the throttle. Do it the other way around and things get ugly fast.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 11:15 AM
Foam Guy
Fort Collins, CO
Joined Jan 2011
145 Posts
Wayne,
Throws: +/- 1/2" Pitch and 5/8 Roll for low rates and we go up by about 1/4 for each medium and then high rate. Don't recall getting past medium rate as it did get "stupid" in a hurry. Probably should have went 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 in pitch and 5/8, 3/4, 7/8 in roll. We also use 50%+ expo as I have the shakes, so you could bump those rates down if your expo is a bit less. Roll rate looks slow from ground but it's respectable for the size wing if you get rates set right. Pitch not an issue unless CG is not right.

Control hardware: I used Hitec 625MG's as I like metal gears in anything that belly lands. More torque than it probably needs though. Used 4-40 rods which will be the standard in Mother Ship Kits going forward. I can mail you some if you like.

Stall: Typical flying wing stall to spiral. Gets worse as the rates go up. Recovery is non-event; if the CG is right you should get a nose down with building energy that allows easy recovery. We have not seen a flat spin but only have a few flights on this one. It was designed as a glider initially so it's not a monster if the CG is right.

Launch: I would not recommend our technique. James and I have been flying together for a bit now and have pretty good crew coordination. One of us actually launches it by throwing from the back of the fifth spar. One step; toss like softball; pilot throttles up after prop is well clear. Puts your digits right at the prop for the launch. Do not try at home. I would use mdennis' nose launch technique. Honestly it's the worst part about the Mother - It's right on the edge of being hand launch-able and is certainly easier with two people. I really want to put retracts in one, but back to design tradeoffs again.

BTW, I tested both black and white EPP yesterday with 3M and packing tape. No difference that I could tell. I will say if you do not do a light sanding and then vacuum things do not stick as well. The hot wire process does make the outer layer a bit harder from the melted foam. A light sanding is all it takes to knock it down. I would compare it to gloss vs flat paint. Scratch sand the gloss a bit and things stick better.

Hope that helps.

R,
C
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 12:42 PM
A trail of smoke is GOOD!
waynemia's Avatar
USA, TX, Springtown
Joined May 2008
7,226 Posts
I have some 4-40 rods. Still considering the CF rods. I will decide when I get ready to hook them up. Throws were about what I expected. I have a friend that also flies wings. I can get him to do the frisbee launch.

I don't think I can do the overhead backward toss thing. I have tried the throw and throttle. I beat the heck out of my first Zaggi trying to launch that way. Especially before it is trimmed. The frisbee was shown to me by the friend I mentioned, Frank Bell. We launch nearly all the wings like that now.

I may try a glide toss or two without the prop on. This can help check the balance and see if it is a possible launch method. Getting a level launch is the key there.

I did sand, used scotch pad, air blow, and alcohol wipe the wings. I might try a test on a scrap piece of epp here. Maybe something is out of kilter. I have done quite a bit of this and the MS was the first one that did not want to stick. The ironing looks like it improved it. I will have to keep an eye on the hinges for a while.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 07:35 PM
A trail of smoke is GOOD!
waynemia's Avatar
USA, TX, Springtown
Joined May 2008
7,226 Posts
I have the wiring done for the ESC and motor. I also taped the elevons on. I usually fly on Sundays so I probably won't get anything done tomorrow.

Coby - Where did you set the CG for your flight? I am a little nose heavy at the moment but I can get creative with the electronics.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 03:35 AM
One Powerball
Australia
Joined Dec 2006
163 Posts
Well, Had a successful day!

After the first Launch of the Mothership, second launch went well. It is not easy holding her with one hand in the wind to launch... Have included some video of other flights of the Mothership taken from different viewpoints. She flies beautifully! A large gentle giant.

Am looking forward to flying her in Albany later this month and to 'electrifying' her in the future. She is just so stable!!

Mothership (2 min 0 sec)


Cheers
Brian
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 02:00 PM
Foam Guy
Fort Collins, CO
Joined Jan 2011
145 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by waynemia View Post
I have the wiring done for the ESC and motor. I also taped the elevons on. I usually fly on Sundays so I probably won't get anything done tomorrow.

Coby - Where did you set the CG for your flight? I am a little nose heavy at the moment but I can get creative with the electronics.
Wayne,
We are running about 14.125. Started at 14.25 and it did not want to stay trimmed in pitch so added another ounce.
R,
C
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 02:06 PM
Foam Guy
Fort Collins, CO
Joined Jan 2011
145 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by topline View Post
Well, Had a successful day!

After the first Launch of the Mothership, second launch went well. It is not easy holding her with one hand in the wind to launch... Have included some video of other flights of the Mothership taken from different viewpoints. She flies beautifully! A large gentle giant.

Am looking forward to flying her in Albany later this month and to 'electrifying' her in the future. She is just so stable!!

Cheers
Brian
Good stuff Brian! Congrats on the Maiden. Looks great!
R,
C
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 04:31 PM
A trail of smoke is GOOD!
waynemia's Avatar
USA, TX, Springtown
Joined May 2008
7,226 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cglusky View Post
Wayne,
We are running about 14.125. Started at 14.25 and it did not want to stay trimmed in pitch so added another ounce.
R,
C
I should be good for the initial flights then. I should have plenty of power and throw to trim it if it is a little nose heavy.

I flew my Zijji 48" a couple of times today. Half the prop broke off on the second flight. That was fun. They glide really well so the landing was no problem. I hope to have it ready to fly in a few days. I will try to run the motor tomorrow. I am anxious to get some current readings.
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