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Old Oct 10, 2012, 10:35 AM
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This...

http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Software
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 01:15 PM
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Davao, Philippines
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Wow. It's like learning a new language for me.

First, I'm still not sure what plugs into the +5V serial 2 coming from the gps.

Second, I still can't figure out what "code" to load where?

The Mutiwii 2.1 doesn't seem to work with my pc, the WinGUI does. Also the Arduino sketch.

This must be boring for others. I just need a bit more enlightenment, anyone?

I plan to use it on a hex.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 01:24 PM
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Heres some more info

http://arduino.cc/en/Guide/Windows
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 01:26 PM
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Some more
http://fpvcentral.net/2012/07/crius-...ltiwii-part-1/
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 01:59 PM
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Ok. +5V is from VDO.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 03:38 PM
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hi im alberto from italy,i've bought one ,i wish know if there is a osd for thisflight controller...
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 11:34 PM
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United States, AZ, Gilbert
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MultiWii Pro Boards

Hey Guys,

I have three of these boards coming in tomorrow. I will be selling them on the classifieds for $75 each but will cut you deal for $65/each if you order before I post to the classifieds tomorrow afternoon. Just shoot me a PM.

This includes free USPS priority mail shipping from Seattle, WA.

It does NOT include the GPS unit. Frankly, I don't know how HK is managing to package the two for such a low price. What I do know is that I ordered one of the Hobby King MultiWii PRO/GPS combos a couple of months ago and still haven't seen it. . .

Also, as I prepare to open my online store which I will formally announce on RCGroups next week, I have been stocking a bunch of other inventory including the Crius AIOP which you guys have been discussing. I will have 10 of those listed and will be selling them for $85/each (fast, free shipping CONUS). These are slightly more expensive based on the sensors.

Same deal there, I will offer a $10 discount if you want to pre-order but please be aware that I won't be able to send those out until the 17th (next week). PM if interested.

Why would I offer pre-order discounts? Simple--I put a ton of money at risk and I am nervous. Nothing more to it than that.
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 03:27 AM
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All you have to do is look at the specs to see why this board is so cheap and why it's very much inferior to the Crius AIOP. The OP says this board is identical to the AIOP and he really should check his facts because its completely different.

The only thing this board and the Crius AIOP have in common is the processor and the HMC5883l magnetometer chip. They both use the Atmel 2560 processor. Other than that it uses an old analog gyro, an old analog accelerometer, the old and less accurate BMP085 barometer,

It's a giant board in comparison to the Crius because it uses a boatload of old fashioned servo type connectors instead of consolidating lesser used functions on modern modular type connects as APM, Crius, CC and most moderne FCs do.

The gyro used is well known to be very noisy and the A/D converters in the 2560 that interface to it aren't the best adding to the noise I issue. Especially without any power condition which the board does not have.

With regards to the GPS, it's also an old crappy part. The Mtk is well known to be the source of many headaches and much frustration by users trying to get Arducopter, MWIi, and AeroQuad position hold and RTH working reliably. This is the same GPS chip that the Ardupilot guys (DIYDrones/3dr) USED to sell. Now they and nearly every one of the leading FC makers have gone to UBlox LEA6 simply because the difference is like night and day. The Crius AIOP inexpensive Gps is a LEA5 which is a less expensive version of the 6 and the GPS on the Crius expansion board is the 6. I will say however, even though its not a good GPS chip it does appear to have a larger antenna which will help it some. E en with the better antenna I'dIll not make it even near as good as the UBlox gps's. it's not all about sensitivity and update rates BTW. UBlox is more sensitive and the update rates a little slower but accuracy is amazing and the results with proper gps code are amazing - assuming you configured the GPS properly.

So, once again you get what you pay for - a board with older, inferior components that will have you pulling your hair out trying to get it to work well. Just as many of us did with previous generation FCs that used the same chips a year or two ago (APM1 for instance). Personally, I wouldn't buy it even if it were $20. In fact, I wouldn't use it if someone gave it to me. Why? Because getting it to work well with megapirates or MWIi is going to take much more effort and even then the stability and overall performance will be far inferior to AIOP or APM2.5 simply because of the noisy gyros and inferior gps.

If you must stick with old 8 bit stuff get a Crius AIOP or an APM2.5 (if you don't mind spending twice as much). Better yet go 33 bits with a CC, Naze32, or Aerquad32. Money much better spent with a longer life before it's obsolete.

Cheers
Wingspinner
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:01 AM
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You make a well-argued case, wingspinner, and I appreciate your analysis; however, I think you may be overlooking that it really depends on what people seek out of a flight controller.

It can hardly be argued that thousands of rc pilots haven't been using the MultiWii (with previous generation sensors) with great success and joy for a couple of years now. This is the same board that many of those thousands have except for the fact that it is an AT Mega IC (which only makes it better).

This board might not make for the best possible industrial-grade drone that money can buy, but thats not really it's goal. The MWC platform, in my opinion, is more for garage tinkerers and weekend warriors.

The cool thing about this particular board is that you can run MWC in octocopter or V8 mode IN ADDITION to camera stabilizing servos and other gear like GPS and lights. That makes it a fun all-around board for under $100 bucks which is what many of us are looking for.

If the MWC platform is too frustrating/unworthy as a flight controller (with the previous generation of sensors), then someone should tell these guys :

MultiWii Stability Recovery (2 min 32 sec)


mwc hexa - flyduspider aerobatics (2 min 50 sec)


Multiwii GPS Position Hold and baro Altitude Hold. (9 min 18 sec)


Waypoint implementation Multiwii 2.1 (1 min 54 sec)
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingspinner View Post
Other than that it uses an old analog gyro,
All Invensense MEMS gyros use 16 bit ADCs. They all use I2C, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingspinner View Post
an old analog accelerometer,
The Bosch Sensortec BMA180 is a digital accelerometer with 14 bit bit resolution and respectable noise density. There are better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingspinner View Post
the old and less accurate BMP085 barometer,
Versus a BMP180? I can't argue specs stating .17m vs .25m typical accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingspinner View Post
It's a giant board in comparison to the Crius because it uses a boatload of old fashioned servo type connectors instead of consolidating lesser used functions on modern modular type connects as APM, Crius, CC and most moderne FCs do.
, "servo" connectors. I'll have to remember where I'm posting. In any event, I have fat fingers and changing tastes. I like 'em. Were I to get serious, I'd be using custom "modular" connectors with much better vibration performance. The data lines they'd be terminating would also, at a minimum, have twice the SNR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingspinner View Post
...the A/D converters in the 2560 that interface to it aren't the best. Especially without any power condition which the board does not have.
Really? Do you have a source or three where I can get some details on performance? As for power conditioning, are we talking about input power series inductance, or...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingspinner View Post
Wart the GPS, it's also an old crappy part. The Mtk is well know to be the source of many headaches and much frustration by users trying to get Arducopter, MWIi, and AeroQuad position hold and RTH working reliable. This is the same GPS chip that the Ardupilot guys (DIYDrones/3dr) USED to sell. Now they and nearly every one of the leading FC makers have gone to UBlox LEA6 simply because the difference is like night and day. The Crius AIOP inexpensive Gps is a LEA5 which is a less expensive version of the 6 and the GPS on the Crius expansion board is the 6.
I haven't found a definitive reason for the criticism yet. It seems to be antenna/noise based or general constellation performance. I've managed desent CEP accuracy with cheaper parts in the past, though update rate was less of a concern at the speeds travelled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingspinner View Post
In fact, I wouldn't use it if someone gave it to me.
I will use it if someone gives one to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingspinner View Post
If you must stick with old 8 bit stuff get a Crius AIOP or an APM2.5 (if you don't mind spending twice as much). Better yet go 33 bits with a CC, Naze32, or Aerquad32. Money much better spent with a longer life befor it's obsolete.
Personally, I do mind spending twice as much for the same product. As for 32 bit RISC, I'll either fab my own board to my own tastes or wait for a cheap Cortex-M3 Arduino ARM. I'm lazy that way.
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Point taken except for one rediculous statment:
[QUOTE][This board might not make for the best possible industrial-grade drone that money can buy, but thats not really it's goal./QUOTE]

Of course we arent trying to build "the best that money can buy. Rather ridiculous statement. None of these chips will meake even close to a low-end commercial quality drone. ALL the chips we use are designed for low end consumer applications. That includes the MPU6050. I dont think any reasonable person would think spending $10-$20 more for a better board that will give better performance with less hassle is anything remotely close to "the best that money can buy"

As well, the MW stuff that those who were successful in getting to fly decent is not the MW we have today with GPS, position hold, altitude hold, and other advanced features. Have you read the forums? There are hundreds of pleas for help trying to get those advanced features dialied in and most will never achieve it primarily due to using the cheap MTK GPS.

Pretty much anything will run MW in rste(acro) mode sufficiently well to have a lot of fun and, as you say, thousands (including myself) have done this eith the older hardware. This board should also be able to achieve that. However, since the OP was focused on on advanced features and comparing to a Crius AIOP so was I. The advanced features of MW and Ardupilot/MegaPirates are very much dependent on having good hardware otherwise one spends hours and hours chasing acceptable performance that cannot be achieved.

So you are using a very different usage model for your comparison and one not relevant to this discussion. I'm not saying what you write isn't relevant at all, it's just a different discussion. If this new board didn't come with a crappy, frustrating GPS and it was $35-$40 then it would be a lower cost alternative to the $55 Crius board and a clearly superior replacement to most of the low-end Atmel328P based boards. But, that's not what it is.

Look, I have no axe to grind, I fly whatever I find works well and I have no special alligence to any brand or any specific hardware or software. I'm purely pragmatic if it works well and the price is right I'm a fan. If its priced too high or it doesn't work well I'm not a fan. I also will not make excuses for crumby hardware just because its cheap. I'd rather spend a bit more to get something that works acceptably well rather that buy something that is marginal and will be a struggle to get working and never deliver acceptable performance. Even if its super cheap. That kind of thing is just a waste of money.

So, I stand by my experience and statements about this board but I will qualify them a bit more in response to your comments. It is not a good solution for running Ardupilot/megaPirates and its not a good solution for MW if you plan to use features such as position hold, RTH, altitude holds, etc. I'll add further that if you replace the GPS with a UBlox LEA6 or even the 5 it might provide acceptable performance but boards running the same chips on Ardupilot have been shown to offer marginal performance for advanced features already. Lastly, as a replacement for 328p based boards running MW for sport flying (acro mode) it may be a step for the reasons you specify. However it's about $20 more expensive.

Bottom line here is your are buying a board that should be priced at about $35-$40 and you are paying $20-$25 for a known poor performing GPS. And, my personal opinion is that even if the board was $35 without the GPS I feel its penny wise and pound foolish to buy it when for an extra $20 I can get the Crius AIOP with much better hardware that will fly much better in most cases with less tuning effort. And... When there is something else that provides more bang for the buck Than AIOP for this end of the market Ill likely recommend that bit right now, in the $30-$60 range Crius is a real good choice and much better that this new board.

Lastly, I know that whenever someone tries to point out that buying the cheapest thing you can get may not be the best path there are going to be five more guys who already bought it and have an emotional investment already or 10 others who have a penchant for buying the least expensive thing with the longest feature list that will dive in and beat the person to death with reams of rstionalization and emotional exaggerations (like the " best money can buy comment"). However, i have a lot of better things to do than debate this. I have no emotional investment in this other than I hate to see people get sucked in to buying something like this believing they'll be able to achieve the same results as slightly more expensive boards like the AIOP and the reams of posts that result from those that buy it trying to make it do what those better boards csn acheive. If one buys this board well informed, whatever your reasons are, thats fine. At least you had some info to work from though and you made your choices and trade-offs based on useful info rather than just the ra-ra it grts because its inexpensive.. Everyone's entitled to make their own decisions. I just try to represent things in as factual a manner as possible. The rest is whatever you feel works best for you. Good luck!

Cheers
Wingspinner
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Last edited by wingspinner; Oct 11, 2012 at 11:24 AM.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 08:07 AM
MHefny
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Egypt, Al Qahirah, Qism El-Nozha
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Schematic & Firmware

Kindly I need to know the exact schematic of the board, also what is the firmware I can compile and upload.... is there a recommended version ?
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 12:44 PM
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@MHefny
I have flown this board with MultiWii2.1 and Megapirate NG. See this forum for more info.

I would love to see a schematic too, but have had no luck so far.

/J
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 06:58 PM
MHefny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNJO View Post
@MHefny
I have flown this board with MultiWii2.1 and Megapirate NG. See this forum for more info.

I would love to see a schematic too, but have had no luck so far.

/J
Thanks for the feedback
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 08:32 PM
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Joined Nov 2007
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The images from the #8 post are detailed enough for someone to make a schematic if they had the time.
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