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Old Sep 19, 2012, 06:51 PM
"Auntie Samantha"
Sandancer's Avatar
USA, MO, Clever
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRCFlying View Post
Thanks! Sorry about my spelling error that probably led to your mistake.

Andrew
No problem, I got 'er takn' care of!

Gary
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 07:14 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
820 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb View Post
Well my Hurricane is no more.
What went wrong I have no confirmed idea, the model had many flights before adding sound but on this one flight I had a couple of glitches I thought when the gun was firing -- I am on 2.4 and did have a choke on the Y lead as I had never removed it from the standard ESC lead. Anyway I am turning final and just lost everything and it strained itself through a tree. The gun was firing when I got to the tree so I checked Tx and sure enough it was switched on!
Killick,

I feel your pain man! Whether due to pilot error, radio problems or Mother Nature (she can be a real _itch!), I have lost many planes. Always a bad feeling. The good news is you were not on board!

Jackson
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 07:44 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
820 Posts
Starmax P-47 Build

Guys,

Just a heads up that I have taken the plunge with Andrew again and ordered an Ultra unit along with the Hobby King 1600mm P-47. Based upon some research I have also determined that the HK 1600mm P-47 is the same thing as the Starmax P-47. There is a huge thread on this plane on RCGroups that I am still working through. Seems the biggest issue is the main gear and wheels. Also, some guys want to put a bigger motor on to go faster (hmmm, where have I seen that before? LOL).

In any event my inspiration is two-fold. I have been looking for an excuse to buy and try the Ultra unit, and am also wanting to have a plane with a BIG RADIAL sound. I was totally impressed by Orion Pax's video on his FW-190. Now I have to have a big radial sound to taxi around... Go figure!

Anyways I thought I would share a couple of thoughts on this build and see if anyone has some advice. The three issues that concern me are installing the sound unit, improving the finish and longevity of the plane, and addressing the weak gear and small wheel issue.

For the sound unit install I now have to consider where to put four speakers. My thought for the 2 inchers is in front and behind the wing assembly on the bottom of the fuselage. I will screw the speaker assemblies into basswood rails, cut out speaker holes, glue the rails to the fuz, and reinstall the cutouts as donuts with the speaker cloth on top. Then paint. For the 1.22s I am thinking to install forward on the sides of the fuz but need to look at and measure this install.

Regarding the finish and longevity of the plane, the basic issue is the sensitivity of the EPO foam. EPO foam allows us all to get incredibly detailed and lightweight aircraft for a very reasonable price. The tradeoff is that normal handling and sunlight leaves it looking like popcorn biscuits. Argh! So, I have taken to coating all my foamies with Polyacrylic prior to flying. This smooths out the foamy texture and creates a hard shell that reduces wear and tear for very little weight gain. I recommend it. But now I am wondering whether a coat with finish epoxy would do even better. I expect the finish epoxy would give a harder shell at a tradeoff of a little more weight gain and the possibility of the finish flaking off. Do you guys have any feedback on this?

Regarding the weak gear and small gear issue, my thought is to find a robust set of electric retracts, add oleo struts for shock-absorbing effect, and put on a set of big, light-weight wheels. The reading I have done suggests that a scale look would be achieved by replacing the 2.5 inch wheels with 4 inch wheels. I love bigger wheels, not only for their looks, but also for their ability to handle grass and runway "anomalies".

I would appreciate any feedback you guys have on these pre-build thoughts.

Hope to get through the build process soon and post a great video quickly thereafter.

Cheers,

Jackson
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 12:02 AM
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BuildItWright's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2008
899 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb View Post
Well my Hurricane is no more. The sound system (Merlin) worked great and in flight the sound was very audible and realistic -- for that one flight!! The gun could only be really heard if I throttled back to just barely maintaining altitude but it was possible and the flight line comments were very positive. Still the neatest part was the start-up and taxi.
What went wrong I have no confirmed idea, the model had many flights before adding sound but on this one flight I had a couple of glitches I thought when the gun was firing -- I am on 2.4 and did have a choke on the Y lead as I had never removed it from the standard ESC lead. Anyway I am turning final and just lost everything and it strained itself through a tree. The gun was firing when I got to the tree so I checked Tx and sure enough it was switched on! Wing is totally destroyed, fuse may be salvageable. Gear ok, motor/prop ok, sound system ok.
If I build again will not use gun module as my gut feeling is that it was only when this was active that the airplane did unsolicited movements.
Anyone else seen this on 2.4?
Very sorry to hear of your loss!
A couple of questions:
What radio system are you using?
Did you do a range check after installing the sound system?

BIW
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 12:55 AM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,760 Posts
Jackson,

Maybe you should try the larger FMS 1.7m P47 wheels which I believe are 3.75" in dia. Can't help you on the sound ubnit as I don't have one...YET .
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:20 AM
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Joined Feb 2012
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Hi all,
I wanted to bring to eveyones attention a common minor issue with the sound system, but one that is easily fixed.

Brand X contacted me this morning with a problem with his sound system, I would like to thank him for the heads up, and letting me share his problem video with all of you.

If you take a look at the video he has sent me, you will hear the sound unit in a medium idle, then the sound surges a couple of times, cuts out, and does some other strange things. This is typical of RF interference, I believe from the ESC/BEC. On a 2.4Ghz radio, I have never seen the sound unit cause RF, but it can accept RF.

The fix for this is very simple, a ferrite choke on the servo Y cable that goes between the ESC and the sound unit seems to take care of the problem 100%. Wrapped around the end that is closest to the RX is the best. I have these chokes in stock, and highly recommend them with all units. It will prevent frustration.

So, if you have problems with the sound skipping, shutting down, surging, or restarting randomly, a ferrite choke is the solution.

sound issue (0 min 28 sec)


Andrew
http://www.mrrcsound.com
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Last edited by MrRCFlying; Sep 20, 2012 at 09:34 AM.
Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:42 AM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
820 Posts
P-47 Gear / Strut / Wheel solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
Jackson,

Maybe you should try the larger FMS 1.7m P47 wheels which I believe are 3.75" in dia. Can't help you on the sound ubnit as I don't have one...YET .
Hi V8,

Thanks for the suggestion. I have decided after considerable research to combine the Hobby King 514 retracts, which I currently use on my FMS Mustang and have extra metal trunions for, with some really slick P-47 offset oleo struts I found on Hobby King that should fit perfectly, and some lightweight 3 inch wheels. I have a picture of the P-47 struts below. I liked them so much that I got an extra set with the idea of retrofitting the Mustang. The Mustang has the same diameter of wire (5mm), but the stock struts are just clad with plastic struts that serve little function other than to stiffen the strut and hold the gear cover in place. I think I will skip the gear cover on the P-47 but would probably rig up a way to attach the Mustang gear covers to the strut.

Bottom line is that these struts are a very nice scale touch that should go well with the tremendous looks of this plane, and Andrew's sound module.

Regards,

Jackson
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:45 AM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
820 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRCFlying View Post
Hi all,
I wanted to bring to eveyones attention a common minor issue with the sound system, but one that is easily fixed.

The fix for this is very simple, a ferrite choke on the servo Y cable that goes between the ESC and the sound unit seems to take care of the problem 100%. Wrapped around the end that is closest to the RX is the best. I have these chokes in stock, and highly recommend them with all units. It will prevent frustration.

So, if you have problems with the sound skipping, shutting down, surging, or restarting randomly, a ferrite choke is the solution.

Andrew
http://www.mrrcsound.com
Andrew,

Are you including ferrite chokes for the Budget and Ultra units I ordered?

Regards,

Jackson
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:51 AM
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Joined Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Stone View Post
Andrew,

Are you including ferrite chokes for the Budget and Ultra units I ordered?

Regards,

Jackson
I can do that.

Andrew
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 10:20 AM
Wisdom can not be granted.
Orion Pax's Avatar
Shreveport Louisiana
Joined Dec 2006
6,302 Posts
Jackson,
With regards to your P-47 build coming up, I think you are taking the right approach to the landing gear issue. Those struts look great and larger wheels are a must.

My only recommendation for the plane is to build it without the sound system first and fly it. The reason why is that sometimes the CG listed in the manual is wrong. It was this way with the FMS P-47 as the thing was way tail heavy. How I got it back safely I will never know but when adding a sound system that is weight that can be used to balance better if the plane needs it. It is always good to know how the plane flies stock before trying to figure out the plane after all the mods. Gives a good before and after feel to it and lets you know if you have enhanced or worsened the flight characteristics.

With regards to the paint and finish, the darker the color the more it is going to bubble. Its just the way it is and it will do it regardless of the spray coating. If you do an epoxy coating, it will do it and crack your epoxy and start a flaking issue like you mentioned in your concerns. Heat is the instigator here and the only way to prevent all of this is to fiberglass it. Of course that is a pain and is time consuming. My best/simplest suggestion is to paint it how you want it. If you want to spray a coat of polyurethane on there then do so but I don't unless I am sealing in detail. It doesn't protect the larger planes very much and it is just added weight. To keep from bubbling, just bring a white towel to cover the plane with if you do not have a shaded area.

Hope my suggestions help and I look forward to see how she looks when your done.

Orion
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 11:46 AM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
1,401 Posts
Andrew/Orion, yes you may be right about pulling the system down but of course I forgot to look at the Rx (Spektrum 7010) to see if it was flashing when it came out of the tree! The battery was still plugged in. I do know that everything --- servos, gear, motor, sound module all worked fine.

I am a CC man but in this case had a genuine 60A Hobbywing Pentium. Ver 3.1 installed, this has a switching bec built in and had performed flawlesly till now. I could kick myself because I had thought to install a CC 10A BEC and also a remote pack for the sound system. In my other large models I ALWAYS use a CC BEC for 3/4 cell packs. In this model I also had three digital servos --- another adder.

I can't believe that it was interference from the sound system -- never saw anything during the ground runs.Thinking back I do remember the gear cycling by itself during that flight ---significant? So bottom line I may have overloaded the system. However what is, is. Now to get a new wing kit from Manzano andstart again.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 11:52 AM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
1,401 Posts
BIW, using JR 9305 Tx with Spectrum 7010 Rx. Had Hobbywing Pentium ESC instead of my usual CC Ice. No I did not do range check after sound system was installed. I did have the choke installed even if that was pure luck that it was there. Can only conclude that I had the dreaded drop out -- my first that I can recall.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 01:31 PM
Wisdom can not be granted.
Orion Pax's Avatar
Shreveport Louisiana
Joined Dec 2006
6,302 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb View Post
Thinking back I do remember the gear cycling by itself during that flight ---significant?
Yes this is significant. I had a Dynam Grand Cruiser that I put in a seperate BEC in on. It was some brand that I got before I learned of Castle Creations 10amp BEC. For whatever reason, there was an incompatibility between it and the electronics. The system browned out when the gear was full retracted and would cycle the gear down on its own. During this period of cycling I had no control over the plane. Once the gear was down, I had control again but only briefly as the gear cycled back up. Once the gear was up, I lost control again and they cycled back down. Not thinking about the switch this happened until I hit the dirt. Got lucky and it survived but if the gear starts to cycle on its own, typically "Gear Down" is the default position and that indicates a brown out and that the system is resetting itself.

Orion
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 01:40 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
820 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Pax View Post
Jackson,
With regards to your P-47 build coming up, I think you are taking the right approach to the landing gear issue. Those struts look great and larger wheels are a must.

My only recommendation for the plane is to build it without the sound system first and fly it. The reason why is that sometimes the CG listed in the manual is wrong. It was this way with the FMS P-47 as the thing was way tail heavy. How I got it back safely I will never know but when adding a sound system that is weight that can be used to balance better if the plane needs it. It is always good to know how the plane flies stock before trying to figure out the plane after all the mods. Gives a good before and after feel to it and lets you know if you have enhanced or worsened the flight characteristics.

With regards to the paint and finish, the darker the color the more it is going to bubble. Its just the way it is and it will do it regardless of the spray coating. If you do an epoxy coating, it will do it and crack your epoxy and start a flaking issue like you mentioned in your concerns. Heat is the instigator here and the only way to prevent all of this is to fiberglass it. Of course that is a pain and is time consuming. My best/simplest suggestion is to paint it how you want it. If you want to spray a coat of polyurethane on there then do so but I don't unless I am sealing in detail. It doesn't protect the larger planes very much and it is just added weight. To keep from bubbling, just bring a white towel to cover the plane with if you do not have a shaded area.

Hope my suggestions help and I look forward to see how she looks when your done.

Orion
Hi Orion,

Your recommendation to build - flight test - install sound system makes lots of sense. I am a real stickler for finding the best CG and am sure we have had similar experiences, especially with a CG that is too far aft. I also like the idea of covering or shading foamy planes on hot days to protect the finish. I absolutely agree that areas that are painted darker are the most problematic. FYI, the last foamy I built was the FMS B-25. I applied two coats of Polyacrylic and she has held up well. That is also a nifty plane to fly if you ever get a chance.

I am in South America this week, so all I can do is read about flying and place orders for stuff that I need to complete the newest additions to my fleet when I return. I am anxious to get back to a regular flying schedule while we still have the nice Fall weather. We have a local event coming up the weekend after this one called "Warbirds over the Rockies". I am planning to fly in that event, just need to choose which airplanes.

Regards,

Jackson
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 04:23 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,760 Posts
Jackson,

I have a set of those for my 1.7m P51 and they are indeed a great looking and functioning. However they didn't fit my plane due to the wheel dia. Only thing you'll need to do is add a Robart collar that secures the wheel skirt wire to the strut , but I don't have that plane so I'm not sure how it not function when the wheel is retracted , but that was the case with my set.
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