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Old Sep 03, 2012, 09:09 PM
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IceManPro's Avatar
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JR, thanks very much for your praise. Let me reply to the questions above:
1) Price increases through vendors? We will try our best to keep prices down, but as we move to vendor sales it may be that the price will need to increase. We will consider very carefully this root, since we really would like to keep current pricing levels as much as possible
2) Configuration complexity? It is true that we have many configuration options, this we feel is important for all the clever and creative RC guys out there who want to adjust to meet their exact needs. Having said this, the unit will also work right out the box with only gain tweaking via the pots on board. We also supply standard config files and these can be easily shared amongst BL-3GRC owners for specific set ups and specific aircraft
3) Mod and boxed? In terms of hardware (PCB-A) and software they are identical (remember this in case the BL-3GRC price is a little high, or temporarily sold out!). The BL-3GMod is primarily being sold as a reference platform in conjunction with STMicroelectronics for people to evaluate the L3GD20 gyro device performance in a way that allows much tweaking and ability to drive real hardware (servos / ESCs etc).
4) The BL-3GRC (ICE-MAN) is a gyro and controller only, the sensor device is gyro (no accelerometer). However we feel that this is all that is necessary for a good stabilization product at a good price. Our next solution, the BL-IM10RC (ICE-MAN Pro) will have Gyro+Acc+Mag+Bar and will be a full auto pilot product (hands free flying + camera pitch / roll gimbal control).
5) Other news: FYI we will add another tab onto the ICE-MAN PC tool in our next release to meet some early customer requests. Other solutions in the pipe line that I can't talk about yet too.

Note: Just one comment about gyro only. It also contains a temperature sensor. (Please get up-to-date s/w from our website to support this fully). High temperature inside an RC aircraft could indicate a problem with the battery. If you have your plane with USB connector easily accessible, you can check the on-board temperature between flights.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 02:17 AM
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In UK I ordered a BL-3GRC from amazon.co.uk on Saturday afternoon - and it arrived on Monday morning. Very good service indeed.

The manual is written in educated English, with good grammar. It is about a quarter of an inch thick and the font size is large enough for easy reading without a magnifying glass.

I am thinking of trying the device in an old ST Model MX2.
The model needs some repairs and a new motor - and yet seems suitable becase it has an easily removable cockpit, which should enable easy mounting fairly near the CG and also easy access for adjusting.

I am not completely clear about connecting the BL-3GRC.
My confusion makes it difficult for me to ask a clear question.
Here is a first attempt.

I will use a Futaba 6EX transmitter and the usual R617FS receiver.
The servos are the ones supplied with the ARTF aircraft, as is the speed controller.
Power is supplied by a 2200 3S battery connected in the usual way.

Should I simply connect the gyro between the receiver and the servos?
Is that the only change to the setup?
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 03:54 AM
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IceManPro's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
298 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris3142 View Post
In UK I ordered a BL-3GRC from amazon.co.uk on Saturday afternoon - and it arrived on Monday morning. Very good service indeed.

The manual is written in educated English, with good grammar. It is about a quarter of an inch thick and the font size is large enough for easy reading without a magnifying glass.

I am thinking of trying the device in an old ST Model MX2.
The model needs some repairs and a new motor - and yet seems suitable becase it has an easily removable cockpit, which should enable easy mounting fairly near the CG and also easy access for adjusting.

I am not completely clear about connecting the BL-3GRC.
My confusion makes it difficult for me to ask a clear question.
Here is a first attempt.

I will use a Futaba 6EX transmitter and the usual R617FS receiver.
The servos are the ones supplied with the ARTF aircraft, as is the speed controller.
Power is supplied by a 2200 3S battery connected in the usual way.

Should I simply connect the gyro between the receiver and the servos?
Is that the only change to the setup?
I suggest you do the following:
1) First it is advisable to put the latest firmware into the unit, and also PC software. You can do this by going to the bluelight web site and following instructions there (look at FAQ), or in the manual.
2) Make sure all seems ok by going to the TOOLS tab on the PC tool and checking that you get both blue and green bars wiggling around.
3) You can then go to the INFO tab and this will show you exactly how to connect it up, ie R617FS has its pitch output on output number 2, you connect this to the gyro input 1. R617FS has its roll output on output number1, so you connect this to the gyro input 3. R617FS has its yaw output on output number 4, so you connect this to the gyro input number 5. Then the gyro outputs go to your airplane control surfaces pitch/elevator output 1, roll/ailerons output 3 and yaw/rudder output 5 (if any control surfaces move the wrong way you can re-connect to to the next output down, ie if pitch is wrong way round, you can connect elevator to gyro output 2 instead of 1. Or you can change in the PC set up tool). Make sure to connect your airplane battery prior to connecting the gyro to the PC via USB if you want to do modifications in situ.
4) For battery connection, if your servos are low power servos then no problem to connect battery in the normal way to the R617FS. Note that the default servo setting on the Gyro is digital, so if you have analogue servos you will need to change this in the gyro set up software otherwise your control surfaces will chatter away.
5) I suggest you also connect R617FS output number 5 to Gyro input number 7, in that way your CH5 switch on your Futaba 6EX will be able to switch the gyro on/off dynamically so you can see the effect of flying with and without gyro working.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 08:38 AM
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Joined Jun 2009
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Mark - Thanks for your fast response.

I am concerned about power needs of servos.
I had no idea how much current they drew ... and found this on the web:

BEGIN QUOTE
For a standard servo:
With no load on the servo, it should be drawing about 7 to 12 milliamperes at rest. As soon as a command to move it occurs, the current will jump to a higher value. How high? depends on the load but can easily approach 1 ampere for a fraction of a second. Now if the servo is stalled (movement blocked in some manner) or a very high amount of friction, this high current can persist until the load is removed or the brushes burn out or an electrical component fails due to overstress or heat.

HS-82MG
Current Drain (4.8V): 8.8mA/idle and 220mA no load operating
Current Drain (6.0V): 9.1mA/idle and 280mA no load operating


HS-55
Current Drain (4.8V): 5.4mA/idle and 150mA no load operating
Current Drain (6.0V): 5.5mA/idle and 180mA no load operating

END QUOTE

So it seems that even four small servos like the HS82MG would use far more power that the low-power setup could cope with.

Have I got this right?
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Hi Chris,
Analogue servos tend to use more power generally, but digital too use a lot of power when operating. We quote 600mA continuous current through the Gyro to be on the conservative side. Yes generally great care has to be taken and so probably better to make the connection as per the high power recommendations in the user manual. Note that for short duration high power requirements we have a large capacitor on our gyro PCB, so if the voltage drops due to some short duration (<0.5sec or so) current spike the Gyro should carry on as normal. You also have the options to switch to manual gyro calibration so if for any reason the gyro has a power outage (voltage drop/ loss >0.5s) it does not need to then go through its long calibration procedure on power up.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by IceManPro View Post
Hi Chris,
Analogue servos tend to use more power generally, but digital too use a lot of power when operating. We quote 600mA continuous current through the Gyro to be on the conservative side. Yes generally great care has to be taken and so probably better to make the connection as per the high power recommendations in the user manual.
Hi Mark
It certainly seems necessary to use the high power setup, even for a small model such as the WOT4 Foam-E.

I cannot understand the wiring diagrams in the user manual for the high power setup and would be grateful for your clarification.

To keep things simple (at least to start with!) please may we consider a highly specific scenario - and see what things need to be bought and what steps need to be taken.

So ... let us consider the aforementioned WOT4 Foam-E as supplied by Ripmax, together with a Futaba 6EX transmitter, an FS617 receiver, and a 2200mAh 3S battery.

1. Is another battery needed?
2. Are any more leads or plugs needed?
3. Do any leads or plugs need to be modified.
4. Is any soldering needed?
5. Could you sketch the whole setup, including all the components (motor, ESC, RX, battery, gyro, servos), showing any leads that have been cut or modified?

What would be much appreciated is a simple step-by-step guide.
Please assume you are writing for someone who is neither an expert in electric flight, nor in electronics, and yet is able to follow clear instructions.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 05:22 AM
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IceManPro's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris3142 View Post
Hi Mark
It certainly seems necessary to use the high power setup, even for a small model such as the WOT4 Foam-E.

I cannot understand the wiring diagrams in the user manual for the high power setup and would be grateful for your clarification.

To keep things simple (at least to start with!) please may we consider a highly specific scenario - and see what things need to be bought and what steps need to be taken.

So ... let us consider the aforementioned WOT4 Foam-E as supplied by Ripmax, together with a Futaba 6EX transmitter, an FS617 receiver, and a 2200mAh 3S battery.

1. Is another battery needed?
2. Are any more leads or plugs needed?
3. Do any leads or plugs need to be modified.
4. Is any soldering needed?
5. Could you sketch the whole setup, including all the components (motor, ESC, RX, battery, gyro, servos), showing any leads that have been cut or modified?

What would be much appreciated is a simple step-by-step guide.
Please assume you are writing for someone who is neither an expert in electric flight, nor in electronics, and yet is able to follow clear instructions.
I will reply very soon on this, but you shouldn't need any other cables or do any soldering.

Mark

Hi Chris,

Ok, so let's look at this very practically.
Your WOT4 comes with an ESC (Electronic Speed Controller) which should have a small Futaba type 3 pin cable output, which gives around 5v for your on-board electronics. (it is also the output for your motor throttle control). There are two options:

1) You can connect this ESC cable to the throttle output of your FS617 (output 3 I believe). This will then also power the FS617 and will also power the gyro and through the gyro the servos. This is the low power connection and although our user manual is rather conservative when describing power output drive, it should be able to drive most electric foamies up to aournd 2A max servo current. (I know the user manual states 600mA, but we prefer to be very conservative)

2) If you connect the ESC 3 pin throttle cable to the BL-3GRC output pin 6, you do not route the power through the gyro (although it does come into the gyro output section), hence this is a safer system with power hungry servos and could cope up to around 2 to 3A servo power.

If you use option (2) then you need to make some changes to the BL-3GRC ICE-MAN gyro configuration (ALWAYS make sure you have the most up to date PC set up software and BL-3GRC firmware from Bluelight). To make this easy we provide a pre-made config file that you can just copy and from the PC tool set up software (tools tab) you can import it and then from the Basic tab send it to the BL-3G gyro. The option (2) config file is available from the below link as is called WOT4FoamE.txt (note that it is in .rar format so you need to download it then extract it to get at the WOT4FoamE.txt file, or just send me an e-mail (see bluelight.com contact page) and I'll send the .txt file to you)

The connections diagram is available here: http://www.bluelight-tech.com/Downlo...Connection.pdf

Hope this gets you going..
Mark
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Last edited by IceManPro; Sep 05, 2012 at 06:51 AM. Reason: More info
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 07:11 AM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
6,606 Posts
V Tail

Mark, just been going through the manual for my BL-3G which arrived today. Congrats on the quality of the product and the Manual and Quick Start guide by the way.

Quick question. I understand how a flying wing has built in configuration but what about V Tail? Is there any way to simply assign the pitch and yaw functions when they are mixed into the control surfaces? Is that only possible through programming the individual channels?

Thanks

John
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 10:58 AM
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Chesapeake, Va
Joined Jan 2011
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Iceman PRO

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManPro View Post
Hi all, I work at Bluelight Technologies, the company who develops and manufactures the BL-3GRC "ICE-MAN" Gyro. I would encourage you to go to Bluelight website to download all the literature and documentations (bluelight-tech.com). As time goes on you'll also be able to get various pre-designed set up scripts for various aircraft configurations. (In fact I would very much like you to send yours to me if you don't mind sharing so I can put them on line). I'm more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
Hey Mark, I was conversing with Pete late last week about your products. Do you know about when the PRO will be out? I fly a couple of giant planes that require multi-servos per surface. I was think the pro would better suit my needs. Thanks

Wil
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RotorHeadH53 View Post
Hey Mark, I was conversing with Pete late last week about your products. Do you know about when the PRO will be out? I fly a couple of giant planes that require multi-servos per surface. I was think the pro would better suit my needs. Thanks

Wil
Hi Wil,

The Pro has the advantage of all the other sensors (acc+mag+bar) so is more suited to hands-free flying and it also has 2 axis camera gimbal control outputs. So if you need auto pilot and camera then the Pro is the one to get, but if it's only multi servos you need to control / stabilize then you can power the servos from a dedicated battery (or attach power to one of the ICE-MAN Gyros outputs instead of inputs). The ICE-MAN and ICE-MAN Pro both have two outputs per axis (pitch/roll/yaw), so that's six servos, but if you use Y cables to double up each servo then you can support 12, 24 or even 48 if you wish! (of course then a dedicated servo battery would be needed). ICE-MAN Pro is still in the final stages of software completion, then needs testing and start of production, so still likely 4 or 5 months away.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jj604 View Post
Mark, just been going through the manual for my BL-3G which arrived today. Congrats on the quality of the product and the Manual and Quick Start guide by the way.

Quick question. I understand how a flying wing has built in configuration but what about V Tail? Is there any way to simply assign the pitch and yaw functions when they are mixed into the control surfaces? Is that only possible through programming the individual channels?

Thanks

John
Hi John,

Thanks for your comments, you're right, we don't support V-tail mixing today. On the next firmware and PC tool software release updates we will add additional functions. Should be easy enough to mix the pitch and yaw functions as you say - I'll see if we can add V-tail mixing to the next releases too.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 09:49 PM
ancora imparo
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Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
6,606 Posts
Thanks. It would be a nice addition. The advantage is that you can deal with "elevator" (pitch) and "rudder" (yaw) throws in the transmitter as for a conventional tail. The Guardian has this mix inbuilt and you just connect the receiver elevator and rudder channels as normal and don't do any mixing in the Tx. Makes it very logical and simple to set up. Given the power of the BlueLight software you would also then be able to do more sophisticated tuning of the ruddervator responses.

Gotta love software driven devices that can be updated.


By the way who are Pete and Mark just out of interest? Would be curious to know what your roles are and see where credit is due for this gadget.

John

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManPro View Post
Hi John,

Thanks for your comments, you're right, we don't support V-tail mixing today. On the next firmware and PC tool software release updates we will add additional functions. Should be easy enough to mix the pitch and yaw functions as you say - I'll see if we can add V-tail mixing to the next releases too.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj604 View Post
Thanks. It would be a nice addition. The advantage is that you can deal with "elevator" (pitch) and "rudder" (yaw) throws in the transmitter as for a conventional tail. The Guardian has this mix inbuilt and you just connect the receiver elevator and rudder channels as normal and don't do any mixing in the Tx. Makes it very logical and simple to set up. Given the power of the BlueLight software you would also then be able to do more sophisticated tuning of the ruddervator responses.

Gotta love software driven devices that can be updated.


By the way who are Pete and Mark just out of interest? Would be curious to know what your roles are and see where credit is due for this gadget.

John
Hi John, just to point out that the current ICE-MAN Gryo does support flying wing applications (ie pitch into roll mixing, any %), but not yet V-tail. Regarding people in our company we prefer to keep details confidential from general forums due to problems with head hunters in the past. Thanks also for your 'credit due' note, certainly the main guys also read these threads. Happy flying!
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 08:47 PM
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United States, NY, Rochester
Joined Jan 2006
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Bl-3g

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Originally Posted by IceManPro View Post
Regarding the issue of delivery time, we expect a couple of weeks, but we will very soon move to a fulfilment by Amazon so will ship from US to US, so very quick. Also planning to supply via normal US RC stores at some point soon. Will post more info when I have it.
Mark, your 3G stabilizer looks like it will be a winner and the PRO, when it
becomes available, could become a very popular flight controller for the
multi-rotor community.

I am interested in your 3G for use as the dedicated gyro stabilizer for a 3-axis
camera gimbal. The three servos will be digital, metal gear, mini with a Torque
of: 2.0kg.cm 6V/ 1.8kg.cm 4.8V. Will your 3G be acceptable for this function
and do you recommend that it be used with it's own Li-Fe power supply?
Also, am I correct in the fact that currently all orders for your items are shipped
out of the Pacific Rim? Thank you and I look forward to your comments.

Regards,

Papa Jeff
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 11:24 PM
FPV in Hawaii
iskess's Avatar
United States, HI, Kailua
Joined Feb 2012
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So if I need something that will hold wings level and maintain a pitch attitude, I need the Pro?
The one that is already released is just a turbulence damper like the A3?
The Pro will offer so much more, it seems like there a quite a gap between the two. That would be the Guardian.
Please correct me if I have a misunderstanding here.
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