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Old Oct 22, 2012, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by IceManPro View Post
Ted,

When you talk about your triple rates on one RC switch I assume you've mapped the input switch to the BL-3GRC Gyro exact gain input option, and you're setting up 3 different gain settings right? then using the table as per the user manual V2.2 page 37? Hang on I think I'm with you, you're changing the rates (or ranges) on your Tx itself, let me get back to you on this.

Mark
I think what's happening is that things don't look quite right since the plane is on the ground and not moving. If you switch gyro on / off we simply take the inputs and feed them more or less directly to the outputs (hence avoiding most of the signal processing and heavy calculations of the gyro), so all will be as normal. With gyro on the rates set up in your Tx should work. However with gyro on then an activation of the control surface is telling the gyro that you require a certain rate of turn. (The operation is actually a rate command operation with compensation to achieve normal range). If this rate of turn does not materialize (since the plane is not flying for example) then the gyro will try a little or a lot (depending on the gain setting) to achieve this hence it will look like your control stick movement is not as required. (Note that at the end points any gyro requested movement will be clipped simply since we don't allow any servo travel outside of the min / max values). With take off mode set in the gain is changed thus exacerbating the effect. If it would be of any use we can implement a mode where the gyro works only when the control sticks are centralized, thus only stabilizing the zero rate, and ensuring all control surface movements are as normal. Note that the gyro implementation is neither a true rate command mode nor a true rate damping mode (where the pilot stick movements are fed directly to the output with minor changes being added in), but from v2.1 onwards it's much closer to the rate damping mode.

Mark
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 07:26 AM
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United States, NH, Stark
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Hi Mark:

I'm certain I had triple rates working correctly in the past.

Also, I test it immediately after connecting the gyro/Rx, on the ground, without moving the plane at all.

So I figured it had to be something I changed recently.

I had added "gyro exact gain" and "heading lock" in the last two weeks.

The last thing I added was the take-off mode.

So I unchecked the take-off mode item first.
This was it.

Without it on (I checked this three times, power off between each test) the triple rates worked perfectly.

The triple rates are set in my Futaba T8FG Tx.

With the take-off mode, the middle and lowest rate are completely wrong. Not much change for the middle rate and the lowest rate not low enough.

I simulated power over 70% (ESC not connected) for four seconds to see what would happen when take-off mode is "finished."

Same problem with triple-rates. (Maybe this happens with dual-rates also?)

So I'm leaving take-off mode Off.

It was a little difficult using it anyway.

My 2.4 pound Switch takes off in ten to fifteen feet.
By the time I smoothly got the power up the plane was almost ready for takeoff even before I'd get to 70%.

Maybe if I had a long-roll takeoff plane this mode would kick in sooner.

Or, maybe there should be a choice of varying the power percentage when it will turn on?
Perhaps adjustable from 50 to 70 percent?

Ted
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 12:05 PM
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Whoops. Upon further testing I find that whenever the BL-3G is ON, I get the erratic triple-rates motion.

Later today I'll do further testing.

I'll turn off the Heading Hold and gyro exact gain.
Or check my TX some more.

I know for certain that I had these triple rates working perfectly, with the gyro On or Off in the past.

Ted
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 01:16 PM
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Whoops Two:

Maybe I imagined that I had triple rates working correctly in the past.

No matter what I do now the triple rates do not work the same as when the gyro is On.

Triple rates work fine with gyro Off, not so when gyro is On.

Back to the drawing board.

Ted
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 01:46 PM
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United States, NH, Stark
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I have to give up on this. Spending too much time on it and getting no where.

My triple rates are set at 100%, 50%, and 33%.

In the Tools Tab, and using the Test function, the green bars go as follows:

Gyro OFF: 100% 50% 33%

Gyro ON: 100% 100% 66% (about)

So, as long as I get 100% movement with the gyro On or Off I guess that is OK for now.

Ted
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted M View Post
I have to give up on this. Spending too much time on it and getting no where.

My triple rates are set at 100%, 50%, and 33%.

In the Tools Tab, and using the Test function, the green bars go as follows:

Gyro OFF: 100% 50% 33%

Gyro ON: 100% 100% 66% (about)

So, as long as I get 100% movement with the gyro On or Off I guess that is OK for now.

Ted
Ted,
This looks normal.
1) At 33%, your full stick movement is telling the gyro you need a good rate turn. Since the airplane is not doing a turn the gyro is 'Thinking': "Wow the control stick is at 33% but we're not turning, there must be some massive gust of wind or something - will add more turn". Based on its gain setting it goes for an extra 33% giving 66% total.
2) At 50%, your full stick movement is asking for a very quick rate turn. Gyro again thinking "wow, why are we not turning, will add even more additional turn rate", so total now becomes 100%
3) At 100%, your full stick movement is asking for a max rate turn. The gyro 'knows' that the plane is not turning but is powerless to do anything since the control surface is already at maximum.

To check that the rates you set on your RC Tx are correct instead of looking at the green bars on the tools page, you can look on the advanced 1 page and press the start button on top left (then when finished the cancel button so as not to save the settings). You should see the stick movement as expected.

Mark

PS note that we also have a rate set up and call it sensitivity instead on the professional 1 page. Normally set to 1.1 but can be changed to suit. However, currently we don't support the changing of this in real time.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 07:17 AM
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Mark:

OK, I understand your explanation. Thank you.

I do have my gain setting set at the default of 2.0, although I can vary it in flight with a dial on the Tx. Never tried this though.

What I was trying to reconcile in my mind was the amount of control movements vs. stick movements and this paragraph from your FAQ:

However for an RC aircraft pilot he/she instead always wants a certain control surface movement when he/she asks for it, irrespective of what this means in terms of a degrees per second request to the PID controller. It is this requirement of the RC pilot that is met with V2.1 of the BL-3G RC Gyro firmware. In other words the control surfaces move exactly the same in response to the RC pilot Tx sticks with the gyro on (enabled) or off (disabled) irrespective of the gyro static or real time gain settings.

Maybe this would not apply with a lesser rate set in the Tx?

Ted
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Chesapeake, Va
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Iceman

Hey JR,

I have been out of town for a while but ordered my Iceman today on Amazon. Let me know how yours is going. I plan to put my in my 73" WS MXS-r with a 30cc DLE engine. It has dual aileron and elevator servos. I hope it works well. I am super excited about it. My email is wdelorme@cox.net. Talk to you soon. It was 59 dollars at amazon before shipping still not to bad but hey are talking about increasing the price after October.

Wil

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjr2001 View Post
Hi Wil, Just ordered mine yesterday. The features listed on the web site are just too good to pass up.
I noticed that the English in the manual and on the website was real English and wondered why it was so good.

I currently have one EagleTree Guardian and it works great, ordered another from HK yesterday and just placed an order for the Blue Light....That will most like be all the stabilization I should need...

As a side note, I decided to give that Orange Stabilizer one more chance on a foamie and found that it is not useable. I tried it last week on a 3DHS Extra and it was almost uncontrollable. You get about 2 to 3 degrees of rotation from 0 to 100% sensitivity. No way that I could adjust the gyro so after 3 attempts I pulled it from the plane. Hopefully there will be a software update to make the Orange useable but until then I am all in with Guardian and Blue Light.

I will post results of my experience as soon as my BL-3G Blue Light arrives.


Cheers, JR
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Glendale, Arizona
Joined Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by RotorHeadH53 View Post
Hey JR,

I have been out of town for a while but ordered my Iceman today on Amazon. Let me know how yours is going. I plan to put my in my 73" WS MXS-r with a 30cc DLE engine. It has dual aileron and elevator servos. I hope it works well. I am super excited about it. My email is wdelorme@cox.net. Talk to you soon. It was 59 dollars at amazon before shipping still not to bad but hey are talking about increasing the price after October.

Wil
Going great with both. I am using V2.2 firmware and it has been great.
Easy to set up and configure with the dual outputs for pitch roll and yaw it is easy to use with dual ailerons and dual elevator servos.

I also use the variable sensitivity and the enable/disable. I could not ask for more in a gyro.

Cheers, JR
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:37 PM
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Hey JR and/or Iceman Pro,

I'm going to be using the Iceman in my 30 cc MXS-r with High Tork high speed servos (2 aileron and 2 Elevator). My transmitter is a Spektrum DX-8 with AR 7010 DMSX receiver. Two battery system with one battery dedicated to engine ignition with 6 volt regulator and one battery dedicated to power receiver/servos. The batteries are A123's.

I was reading the owners manual and it sounds like you take the output from the receiver to the appropriate left side of the Iceman with battery power going into one input on the left with only signal outputs from the right side of the Iceman out to the servos with direct battery input through red and black wires on the servo side (Brown and orange for JR Spektrum). Does that mean I have to splice into each servo hook up or how is that suppose to work? Do you understand it? May be I'm making more out of it that is really there, but it seems like there is going to be a lot of cutting and rerouting of wiring. Let me know what you think? Thanks

Wil
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorHeadH53 View Post
Hey JR and/or Iceman Pro,

I'm going to be using the Iceman in my 30 cc MXS-r with High Tork high speed servos (2 aileron and 2 Elevator). My transmitter is a Spektrum DX-8 with AR 7010 DMSX receiver. Two battery system with one battery dedicated to engine ignition with 6 volt regulator and one battery dedicated to power receiver/servos. The batteries are A123's.

Does that mean I have to splice into each servo hook up or how is that suppose to work? Do you understand it?

Wil
My setup was easy since I am not using over 2.5 amps for servo power.
I think the BL3GRC is good for about 2.5 amps max feed thru for servo power.
Same battery powers receiver and BL3G and Servos.
So all I need are the short 3 wire servo jumper wires supplied with the
BL3G to connect the left side of the gyro to the receiver and my servos go
directly to the gyro connections on the right side.

Hope this helps.

I am sure Mark can give a reading on max current allowed feeding through the BL3G and the max volts for powering the GL3G.


If you are using heavy current servos then I think you need one of these:
http://www.servocity.com/html/servo_power_boards.html
I am sure there are others but it isolates your servo power and receiver power.

See page 7 for wiring up to 2.5 amps.

From the manual V2.2 http://www.bluelight-tech.com/Downlo...UserManual.pdf

The BL-3G has inputs from an RC receiver and so accepts standard 5v input signals.
(These can go up to maximum 7.4v or down to a minimum of 2.2v with no problems).
The BL-3G signal outputs to drive servos and ESC type units have a maximum high
output of 3.3v. The power output to the servos / ESC units is directly fed through from
whatever battery (normally designated B+), is connected to the gyro. (To either its
input pins or its output pins). As shown below, if higher current servos are used then
separate gyro / servo power supplies (batteries) must be used. The maximum voltage
the gyro can accept for B+ input is 20v, and the absolute maximum current it can
pass to its outputs is 3.0 A .The BL-3G has inputs from an RC receiver and so accepts standard 5v input signals.
(These can go up to maximum 7.4v or down to a minimum of 2.2v with no problems).
The BL-3G signal outputs to drive servos and ESC type units have a maximum high
output of 3.3v. The power output to the servos / ESC units is directly fed through from
whatever battery (normally designated B+), is connected to the gyro. (To either its
input pins or its output pins). As shown below, if higher current servos are used then
separate gyro / servo power supplies (batteries) must be used. The maximum voltage
the gyro can accept for B+ input is 20v, and the absolute maximum current it can
pass to its outputs is 3.0 A .





cheers, JR
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted M View Post
Mark:

OK, I understand your explanation. Thank you.

I do have my gain setting set at the default of 2.0, although I can vary it in flight with a dial on the Tx. Never tried this though.

What I was trying to reconcile in my mind was the amount of control movements vs. stick movements and this paragraph from your FAQ:

However for an RC aircraft pilot he/she instead always wants a certain control surface movement when he/she asks for it, irrespective of what this means in terms of a degrees per second request to the PID controller. It is this requirement of the RC pilot that is met with V2.1 of the BL-3G RC Gyro firmware. In other words the control surfaces move exactly the same in response to the RC pilot Tx sticks with the gyro on (enabled) or off (disabled) irrespective of the gyro static or real time gain settings.

Maybe this would not apply with a lesser rate set in the Tx?

Ted
Hi Ted,

This might be a bit misleading, but it is true if the aircraft is flying around and responding as it should be to the control stick movements.
Mark
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 11:37 PM
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Yes, we have tested up to 3.1 Amp continuous pass through current. You can see details on page 56 of the V2.2 soft user manual - here. As you say:
- Max current 3A (see here)
- Max signal level 7.3V
- Max power voltage 20V
So if you plan to use above 3A (we say above 2.5A in the user manual to be on the very safe side), then you will need to do some splicing. Details on page 9 of the v2.2 soft user manual.

Mark
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted M View Post
Hi Mark:

.....

Or, maybe there should be a choice of varying the power percentage when it will turn on?
Perhaps adjustable from 50 to 70 percent?

Ted
Ted, regarding your question about take off mode, we will consider to allow this % to be changed, but a way round would be to set up "Gyro on mode" operation instead of "Take off mode" operation on the adv2 tab, in that way you would need to just flip the gyro on switch prior to take off. (But then take care not to flip the gyro on/off switch during flying).

Mark
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 06:37 AM
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Chesapeake, Va
Joined Jan 2011
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Thanks JR and Mark

I appreciate your help!

Wil
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Last edited by RotorHeadH53; Oct 25, 2012 at 09:31 AM.
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