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Old Oct 17, 2012, 07:36 AM
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Okay v2.2....max throws with gyro on and off now appear to be the same, however turning the gyro on with a partial stick movement results in a larger control surface movement. Also with the gyro off max servo range is being reached before the tx stick is fully moved. I went through the tx input matching routine...so does this need some more work or did I miss something?
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Brush Hog View Post
Okay v2.2....max throws with gyro on and off now appear to be the same, however turning the gyro on with a partial stick movement results in a larger control surface movement. I went through the tx input matching routine...so does this need some more work or did I miss something?
There should be very little movement now between gyro on and off on all gain settings. Do you have your sensitivities on tab Prof1 set up to 1.1? However with the gyro on and some stick movement means you are requesting the gyro for a particular angular rate. Since the plane is stationary and not reaching that angular rate the gyro will try harder to achieve it. Hence I think it is working correctly. I will discuss further internally, but i think it is correct.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by IceManPro View Post
There should be very little movement now between gyro on and off on all gain settings. Do you have your sensitivities on tab Prof1 set up to 1.1? However with the gyro on and some stick movement means you are requesting the gyro for a particular angular rate. Since the plane is stationary and not reaching that angular rate the gyro will try harder to achieve it. Hence I think it is working correctly. I will discuss further internally, but i think it is correct.
Sensitivity is set to 1.1. Your explaination of the difference between control surface movement would make sense if the gyro was in normal or proplock mode but I had it set to uncommanded. I guess I just need to go fly the thing and see how it works out now :P


--- Just flight tested, normal mode is working great, no loss of roll rate and nice smooth rolls at the rate commanded. I turned up the roll gain for the second flight so I could see the AGC function in action and that looks like its working quite well too. The wings would rock a couple times then fade out, the oscillations never got violent like they would before. This is a great feature for initial setup of gains. v2.2 is a nice improvement over 2.1.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 06:35 PM
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Excellent news! Sounds like the issue I was having may be fixed. I will download V2.2 and try to get in a test flight tomorrow.

Mark - I for one am very impressed with not only how fast you respond to questions/issues brought up online but also with how fast you bring the solution(s) to reality!

Regards,
Mike
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Molnar142 View Post
Excellent news! Sounds like the issue I was having may be fixed. I will download V2.2 and try to get in a test flight tomorrow.

Mark - I for one am very impressed with not only how fast you respond to questions/issues brought up online but also with how fast you bring the solution(s) to reality!

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike. I appreciate the forum feedback very much too. Especially this one.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 10:24 PM
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FYI I will discuss the different gyro lock modes in a later post..
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 05:24 AM
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BL-3GRC Gyro/controller uncommanded Gyro lock Mode. This works as follows: If the control sticks are left unaltered (within +/- 10 us, or 1% of whatever position they're in) then the gyro will be switched on, otherwise switched off (not given low gain, but actually disabled). The aim of this feature is to ensure that during dynamic and fast changing aerobatic type manoeuvres that the RC pilot can employ his normal flying techniques without the gyro impacting. If then the control sticks are left unaltered then the gyro will again kick in to give stability. It is therefore a bit difficult to test this mode on the ground and so really needs to be tested in flight. In fact we're not so sure if this mode is useful to flyers or not and will see what type of feedback we get. It may be better to modify this mode to have the gyro kick in only if the control sticks are centralized within reasonable limits.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by IceManPro View Post
BL-3GRC Gyro/controller uncommanded Gyro lock Mode. This works as follows: If the control sticks are left unaltered (within +/- 10 us, or 1% of whatever position they're in) then the gyro will be switched on, otherwise switched off (not given low gain, but actually disabled). The aim of this feature is to ensure that during dynamic and fast changing aerobatic type manoeuvres that the RC pilot can employ his normal flying techniques without the gyro impacting. If then the control sticks are left unaltered then the gyro will again kick in to give stability. It is therefore a bit difficult to test this mode on the ground and so really needs to be tested in flight. In fact we're not so sure if this mode is useful to flyers or not and will see what type of feedback we get. It may be better to modify this mode to have the gyro kick in only if the control sticks are centralized within reasonable limits.
Mark,

Bravo for another innovative idea. You said that you were not sure if an Uncommanded Gyro Lock Mode would be useful or not. Interesting question.

Do you propose to switch off all three axes whenever any one control input is made or only the axis in which the input occurs ?

I can't speak for 3D style flying, but for more ordinary flying the usefulness of that feature will probably depend on the task that is being flown and the axis in which the feature is operating. Let's speculate on a task where it might useful, and then one which might not be so useful.

Useful task: A straight pass down the runway with a snap roll just as the model comes abeam of the pilot. The stability augmentation would be on during the approach to abeam -- looks nice and steady. Then the snap roll. Since the stabilization is off during the snap, the snap roll will be really crisp and quick. When the sticks are released, the snap roll should stop very crisply and then the model would continue its straight flight very smoothly.

Not so useful task: Approach and landing. The model would look really steady coming down final. Pilot workload would be very low despite wind gusts. But when the elevators are moved to begin the flare, do all axes lose augmentation ? If so, then the model will suddenly begin to respond to gusts. In pitch, the model would suddenly go from well damped and tame to quick and sensitive. The wings could dip unexpectedly, further increasing pilot workload.

In full scale flight control systems, "down mode" actions often do not turn the stabilization off completely. Rather, a pilot input roll input might change augmentation in the roll axis from a Heading Lock mode to a Rate Command or simple Rate Damping mode. Or the pilot input might simply reduce system gain in that axis. Heading Lock would only re-engage as the wings regained level. All that time, the pilot roll input would have no effect on augmentation in the pitch axis.

Sound complicated ? Yes it is. But that's because we are dealing with the man-machine interface and human beings are very complex creatures.

Dick
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by otrcman View Post
Mark,

Bravo for another innovative idea. You said that you were not sure if an Uncommanded Gyro Lock Mode would be useful or not. Interesting question.

Do you propose to switch off all three axes whenever any one control input is made or only the axis in which the input occurs ?

I can't speak for 3D style flying, but for more ordinary flying the usefulness of that feature will probably depend on the task that is being flown and the axis in which the feature is operating. Let's speculate on a task where it might useful, and then one which might not be so useful.

Useful task: A straight pass down the runway with a snap roll just as the model comes abeam of the pilot. The stability augmentation would be on during the approach to abeam -- looks nice and steady. Then the snap roll. Since the stabilization is off during the snap, the snap roll will be really crisp and quick. When the sticks are released, the snap roll should stop very crisply and then the model would continue its straight flight very smoothly.

Not so useful task: Approach and landing. The model would look really steady coming down final. Pilot workload would be very low despite wind gusts. But when the elevators are moved to begin the flare, do all axes lose augmentation ? If so, then the model will suddenly begin to respond to gusts. In pitch, the model would suddenly go from well damped and tame to quick and sensitive. The wings could dip unexpectedly, further increasing pilot workload.

In full scale flight control systems, "down mode" actions often do not turn the stabilization off completely. Rather, a pilot input roll input might change augmentation in the roll axis from a Heading Lock mode to a Rate Command or simple Rate Damping mode. Or the pilot input might simply reduce system gain in that axis. Heading Lock would only re-engage as the wings regained level. All that time, the pilot roll input would have no effect on augmentation in the pitch axis.

Sound complicated ? Yes it is. But that's because we are dealing with the man-machine interface and human beings are very complex creatures.

Dick
Hi Dick, Thanks for the feedback.. Just to answer your question above, it is done on a per axis basis.
Mark
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by IceManPro View Post
Hi Dick, Thanks for the feedback.. Just to answer your question above, it is done on a per axis basis.
Mark
Good. That takes care of a lot of problems.

Dick
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 10:53 AM
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United States, NH, Stark
Joined Sep 2011
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Triple Rates not correct with BL-3G on?

I have triple rates set up on my Tx, for all three axes, on one 3-position switch.

The are set at 100%, 50%, and 33%.

100% is the maximum physical throw I want for each control.

In the BL-3G I did set up the Range settings so the throws don't change much when the BL-3G is On or Off.

With the BL-3G Off, my rates work as desired.

With the BL-3G On, they don't.

The 100% does not get to 100%, the 50% settings doesn't seem to change anything, and the 33% setting does make is less.

But the values are not nearly what they are with the BL-3G Off.

I'm aware of this, so I just use 100% to be sure I have enough control.

Also, with the BL-3G Off, but with The Take Off mode On, my triple rates are messed up, as above, until the four seconds are up.

Is there any way to make the triple rates be exactly the same with the BL-3G On OR Off?

Ted
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 02:16 PM
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I've not had too much time play with mine but seems pretty good so far.

Using input 6 I can turn gyro on/off but using input 7 does nothing; it stays on regardless.

Dave
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted M View Post
I have triple rates set up on my Tx, for all three axes, on one 3-position switch.

Is there any way to make the triple rates be exactly the same with the BL-3G On OR Off?

Ted
Hello Ted, I have the same setup on my 57" Sukhoi and it works fine.
Which software are you using? The latest is V2.2 and I have that in both of my BL3Gs. They both work fine. I am not using take-off mode in either one.

JR
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 03:43 PM
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I'm using Version 2.2 also.

I'll try taking out the take-off mode and see what happens. Tomorrow.

Ted
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 11:55 PM
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Ted,

When you talk about your triple rates on one RC switch I assume you've mapped the input switch to the BL-3GRC Gyro exact gain input option, and you're setting up 3 different gain settings right? then using the table as per the user manual V2.2 page 37? Hang on I think I'm with you, you're changing the rates (or ranges) on your Tx itself, let me get back to you on this.

Mark
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