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Old Aug 29, 2012, 12:38 PM
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My new project..another lifeboat or two.

I have been loosing sleep over this one..........a number of boats have come to mind over the past couple of months and my early thoughts were either towards a tender tug or a 61' Barnett class boat, but for differing reasons I was a little put off by both projects and to be honest, it came down to the fact that it would be sheer boredom on the part of the Tender tug.............I've built 3 Imara tugs and two Marie Fellings over the years, and each time I said Never again.

As for the 61' barnett, well, to be honest it wouldhave the same attributes as the Clyde that I built.........too big to keep in my workshop, and the presence of my smaller barnett which I love anyway, so dispenced with them both.

I thought about doing a 41' and a 42' Watson, but they would be similar to the two 46' boats that I have just finished, and a cross over from the 41' Anne Lettitia Russell that I started off doing in the mid 1990's.

I wanted something different and think I have found the one to fit the bill, and keep me interested.

It is the old Fleetwood Pulling and sailing lifeboat of 1894 which served well into the 20century.

Also a good pro towards this class was that in 1908 they modified the class (the 43' Watson class) to motorise 5 of them, as well as motorising some of the smaller pulling and sailing boats.

So I have decided to build one with drop keels for purely a sailing version ( no toy like oarsmen rowing for me) and a second boat which has been modified for single motor movement, with auxiliary sail.

Pictures below are of the smaller ( I think) 1:24 scale waterline model of the Maude Pickup........Fleetwoods lifeboat) that is in the Fleetwood Museum.

All I have to do now is get some plans for the class.........and this is in hand with NMM in Greenwich.

Hope you like my choice.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 09:58 PM
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excellent, something a bit tasty and different!
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 12:45 AM
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I'd be interested to know how much getting plans from the NMM ends up costing.

In particular: Can you ask for particular plans -- e.g. "just the lines and general arrangement", and can you get them in electronic form rather than on big bits of paper?
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Davies View Post
I'd be interested to know how much getting plans from the NMM ends up costing.

In particular: Can you ask for particular plans -- e.g. "just the lines and general arrangement", and can you get them in electronic form rather than on big bits of paper?
I have only ever asked for big bits of paper.......easier to take drafts from for building purposes, and even then one has to sign a document to say that such plans can't be copied except for ones own building purposes and certainly NOT for commercial use.
I reckon the plans will cost me close to 100.00p/160$US. It also depends on what plans are actually available and what were saved at the time and sent from the RNLI headquarters at Poole to the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich.

well, good lord, I now have copies of original photos of the motorised RNLB William and Laura ON 595,(c1910) based from new at Donaghadee coming to me from the great grandson of the coxs'n..............they apparently were taken by the coxs'n and motorman at the time when she was delivered..............brilliant!, so just need to get some plans from NMM.............things are starting to roll quietly.

I love it when a plan comes together!!
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 05:18 PM
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OOOH !

And now for something complelety different !

Will the thread be in sailboats, or scale sailboats ?
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 05:24 PM
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I'll keep it here tim, as one of the two will be motorised.
neil.

goodnight one and all.
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Old Aug 31, 2012, 11:53 PM
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imagine heading out in a storm on one of these, brave men indeed.
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Old Sep 01, 2012, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DerekCross View Post
imagine heading out in a storm on one of these, brave men indeed.
they were indeed, Derek, especially when you look at what they have at their disposal these days.

I really am getting itchy fingers now................but can't even attempt to get plans from the NMM until Simon Stevens gets back from Holls this coming week.

However, whilst looking through one of my books called "Let not the deep" I found small GA plans including line plans for both boats that I intend to build.

Strangely, although they are both classed as 43' Watsons and there is 20 years between builds, both hulls are very slightly different in plan detail......with the full beam just that little further back on one than the other. Also the bow is raked a little more on the pulling and sailing boat than it is the motor/sailer.

Which has left me in a slight dilemma, as I wanted to use the same mould and hull for both boats.

The question is, if I make the mould and hull as for the motor/sailer would it really have much effect to the pulling/sailing model at 1:12 scale.

the lines of the hulls for both boats are almost identical, and I can really only see the almost vertical bow of the motor/sailer being any obstacle to it being a decent sailer for the second boat, but just wondering whether anyone else could shed any light on this, as I am not a yachtsman, and presume that the more raked bow of the earlier pulling/sailing boat was to facilitate the boat to cut through the water that little better.
As for purism, as I have always said..................a little modellers licence always comes into my models, and as such, do not suffer from the comments of purists......this question is purly to accertain whether that more virticle bow would hinder the sailing model.

the top set of plans is the motor/sailor, and the bottom set the pulling/salior.

I, myself don't think it will have much effect, but would like to hear from those more knowledgeable on this subject.
cheers, neil.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 10:31 AM
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Well, to all those who condemn the prices of plans from National Maritime Museum, I have an answer to them, and after the help I recieved from Simon Stevens, Curator of the NMM this afternoon, I am forever in his debt.

I phoned him this pm after he returned from his 2 week hols and we spent an hour together on the phone, where he went through file after file, folder after folder, back referencing and finally coming up with lines, GA's and sail plans for the two boats I want to build...........just brilliant service, and tomorrow with the numbers and refs that he gave me I'll be placing my order.

Without plans you can do so little, and without people like Simon Stevens, willing to spend that time helping you, you have absolutely no chance.

My sincere thanks go out to him for all his help this afternoon, and bearing in mind that we are going back 125 years to some of these plans..........."the boy dun gud" is all I can say.

Thanks Simon.

Neil.

And if anyone still moans about the price of plans....just ask Rod ( trawlernam) he was quoted the other day from a museum in Yorkshire, that has just had a government grant to set up their archive system of 50,000.00p.....nearly 50 quid a sheet, plus 5 quid research plus postage.................I reckon that NMM's prices and help are cheep compared
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 06:05 AM
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Well!, four weeks, not bad I suppose............could have been longer, but my plans for the Motor Lifeboat ON595, Donaghadee lifeboat have finally arrived including plan and profile, seating and W/T boxes, ( or Hold Air Cases as they called them in 1912), cross sections, Motor and cover and a sail plan for generic dipping lug sail lifeboats with main and mizzen mast and foresail.

Time to get cracking!!!!
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 04:53 PM
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I finally got down to some work today in preparation for building the plug for taking a GRP mould of the hull and end case tops.

However the problem with building a model that is of a boat one hundred years old is that not all the plans are available..........and sadly for the William and Laura, although the plans I got from the National Maritime museum are excellent in that all GA's and sail plans are there, along with superb drawings of the engine and compartment ( which I think I'll build and mould), there are no line drawings for that type of boat, and so I have had to rely on the very small set that were supplied and as posted on post out of the book Let Not the Deep.
there is a problem though in that when these were photo enlarged and three times over at +400% they become distorted in length and height, and as such give an incorrect shape.

To overcome this, using my long past teaching skills in Tech Drawing, I set about correcting this.

And this is the way I do it.

I set the photocopied plans of the frames into a grid, of approximately 20mm squares, by using both measured and parallel segmentation, where a line is drawn at an angle to the axis that is to be split ( this would invariably be an odd measurement) and along that angled line, measure out with screw dividers, the set number of partitions that you want your axis deviding into.
Join the last measurement to the end of the axis, and then using the square, adjustable and fixt set squares, run parallel markings to the end line, from each of the measurements......this will then devide the axis into equal measurements.

Set out the overal box grid of the measurements of the actual boat, and then divide this larger box, using the same methods as with the photocopied lines drawing, and you end up with a box grid of equal sections, but the exact actual overal size of the largest frame of the boat ( which is usually the moulded breadth of the boat ( or Beam as we know it)

Once you have got the two box grids you just transfare the intersections of the lines to the grids from the line drawings onto the blank grid.......and hey presto, you end up with the proper lines properly shaped and representing the boat.
However you will be surprised to see the difference between the photocopied lines and the newly drawn ones.
It is an accurate way of transposing lines, as long as you are accurate with the measurements for the grid...............and any small discrepancy between the sections fixed to the keel can be taken away eventually with polyester filler.

neil
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 05:04 PM
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Thats quite an unusual skill set you've got Niel ...

This will be an education.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 05:34 PM
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It's all part of the jigsaw of producing a model from scratch with limited information Tim............and also a part which I really enjoy.......then I can honestly say I really did build from scratch.
neil.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:25 PM
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Well, the build has started..........got all my frames and plans copied today so that I could cut the spares up fpr copying onto timber.
I'm using 9mm ply for the main keel and the two centre frames 5 & 6 and 6mm ply for the other frames.

But beefore that, to the templates for the frames.
Some are frightened of doing these and have said to me at clubs and my nightschool that I used to teach that they can't get the two halves equal, so this is my way of doing it ( there will be many other ways, but this is my tried and tested way so will just go through it step by step for anyone interested)

1) run a steel marking scribe down the center line of the frame template.....this will help the fold in the template to be crisp and straight.

2) Fold the template down the centre line.

3) cut the template you need from the copy leaving a margin to begin with.

4) Cut with a sharp scalpel knife across the top of the frame as the first cut whilst the template is folded, making s=ure that the under side doesn't "creep" thus giving a false half.

5) Cut out the frame line to the edge of the template, again whilst the template is folded.

You then have the whole template, equal on both sides, ready to mark onto timber.

6) repeat the process with the other ten or so frame templates.

The cutting out of the Keel is to the bulwark height and to the outer line of the keel, and I used household sharp scissors.

One thing NOT to forget when copying the keel template to timber is to mark the centre possitions of the frames onto the keel itself before cutting out, as shown in picture 9.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 07:24 PM
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