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Old Sep 02, 2012, 09:36 AM
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cracksmeup's Avatar
United States, IL, Joliet
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Yep 8 sisters and one son who is in his late 40's and still living with his mother ,gee i wonder how that happened .lmao I stay away from most of the chaos when they get together ,its a mad house so i find a nice corner and keep my mouth shut. Iam the biker black sheep untill anyone needs to borrow money.lol Its going to clear up tonight and i might get to fly tomorow morning but its been good to do exactly what you did and clean up my workbench joe
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 09:55 AM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
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Originally Posted by cracksmeup View Post
Yep 8 sisters and one son who is in his late 40's and still living with his mother ,gee i wonder how that happened .lmao I stay away from most of the chaos when they get together ,its a mad house so i find a nice corner and keep my mouth shut. Iam the biker black sheep untill anyone needs to borrow money.lol Its going to clear up tonight and i might get to fly tomorow morning but its been good to do exactly what you did and clean up my workbench joe
I know what happened to their brother, those ladies destroyed him! Good thing you are tough. Are you saying I motivaed you to clean your bench? Now you won't be able to find anything! I had to get mine dirty again, so now I am starting to find everything again!

Fred
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 10:50 PM
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Freddie love your motor centering technique. What method/methods do you use for cutting out your perfect circles ?
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 12:22 AM
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Freddie love your motor centering technique. What method/methods do you use for cutting out your perfect circles ?
Thanks Wilfor. On these larger diameters I have been drawing them with a chepo type Compass like the kids get for school supplies with a clamp on pencil. The I have been using a hobby knife to cut them. Guess it's all the practice hand cutting foam for my builds but I get real close. If it's critical stay a tad away from your line and sand them to the line with a sanding block. When the line splits, you are right there. For the center hole and prop adaptor location I use a circle template to mark, and drill with my famous sharpened brass tubing drills. The $Tree foam has paper so if that is what you have, leave paper on for the drawing phase.

If you want to get real fancy, take and poke a pin or nail hole in a "Disk to Be" part, then this gets poked into a piece of scrap. Spin the disk part by hand as it rests close to a sanding disk or similar, moving it towards the sanding device slowley until you reach your size. Just remembered you can draw a circle on the poster board card stock, and use scissors to cut these out. Easy to control precise cuts. Then pin this to foam and hot wire cut, or use sanding block to sand foam right up to the template edge.

Last on smaller circles I have used a circle template before to trace around a circle cut with a hobby knife instead of a pencil. Some of this stuff is no different than working in a cabinet or machine shop. Real airplanes often have hand cut, filed, or sanded parts too!

Fred
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 02:32 AM
rcflyer
UK
Joined Jun 2010
844 Posts
Hey fred, I was looking at your homemade prop adaptors on pg 3.... do you have a tutorial on them? B'cause I would like a go at it!
Cheers

Jim
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rcjim11 View Post
Hey fred, I was looking at your homemade prop adaptors on pg 3.... do you have a tutorial on them? B'cause I would like a go at it!
Cheers

Jim
Hi Jim. I did not make a tutorial because most people do not own, or know haw to run a lathe. Do you own a lathe? If so, maybe we could get to something like that, as I often make different prop adaptors, hubs, and other things I want to make or need!

Thanks for asking! I hope you do own some machine shop tools, because making things manually in a machine shop setting is also a dying art that I am very proud to be a part of, even if it's been a long time ago for me............

Fred
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 12:48 PM
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Omaha Nebraska
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Back to wings, Undercamber type first.....

So as I stated earlier, everyone has a favorite wing type. I feel that if you want the absolute slowest flying airplane then copy what Jurgen Be did and make this a true undercambered wing. They work great.

You can then cut out your parts per the plan, and form the undercamber into your foam and just put it together. You will have some limits on how fast you can fly because UC wings can get a bit floppy at high speed. Remember this if you are going for that 3 cell, motor setup #1 we discussed prior.

Cold forming:

Link here is to Tony's single post on how to cold form a undercamber wing. PLEASE NOTE within this link and single post, there is an additional link that you may click on to view his video. View the second one, like about 45 seconds, in .wmv format, or something like that. you will be amased, easy, but first time takes a little longer than Tony!

Tony's single post http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=75

to view his video. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...31&postcount=1


But do remember that using a round pipe or such on a padded surface like carpet, or a couch will also do a wonderful job of cold forming foam. My preferred method is now the pipe and padding, so you decide.

I would file a slight radius into your leading edge and glue a dowel into it for more strength. This would be the lightest, slowest flying, yet weakest wing setup of three I recommend. I like UC wings a lot myself.

Fred




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Old Sep 03, 2012, 01:04 PM
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Omaha Nebraska
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Next wing, using KFm-xx style wings.

[B]

[/BHere is the second choice for a wing. This would be heavier than pure UC, but not too much more, yet stronger. A KFm type wing.

KFm is very popular. I do not build with KFm often, but since this may be your favorite, it is similar to Undercamber (the one I would recommend), but stronger. So you would only need to alter the plan a bit to fit the KFm step into the appropriate slots. This would be easy and everyone could do this without much explination.

Cold form your material as I showed above. I would use KFm5, and also add dowels. I would not try to thicken the wing at the steps, but just use a double layer. I would put the step edge at 40% of the cord, from the leading edge, and add a round or square spar behind the foam step. I would also add a spar to the Leading Edge and get a really stout wing for very little weight gain. My spars are always wood, 3/16" diameter hardwood, called Poplar. This would be fairly light, easy to make, slow down in flight nice, but still limits high end speed.

Fred




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Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:50 PM
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vtdiy's Avatar
Southern Vermont
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Oh, man another Freddie thread I missed!
Subscribed.

(Too bad you can't subscribe to a person.)
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 08:39 PM
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dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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Fred,
The 4-40 undercamber is a great airfoil. It is used on the Blue Baby, Oshkosh Special, Sea BB and many others. I can't speak highly enough for it, and can confidently recommend it. However on the Magnum Reloaded I used a KFm like you are proposing in an effort to emulate the EPP airfoil of the original model. It might just be the geometry of that model, but I am not particularly impressed with its performance. The airfoil has that constant radius look vs. the tighter radius on the front half of the wing. So its not really about the KFm portion as much as it is about the contour.

Ken
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by vtdiy View Post
Oh, man another Freddie thread I missed!
Subscribed.

(Too bad you can't subscribe to a person.)
Vtdiy,

You have not missed it, you are here. Glad to see you are following because I sure do appreciate your deep thinking and insight when needed. Oh and you wouldn't need to subscribe to 'a person' because that 'person' doesn't post very many threads at one time. I'll be getting to more newsprint stuff soon and then maybe you can set me straight on some issues I had........

Fred
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 11:10 PM
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Omaha Nebraska
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Originally Posted by dz1sfb View Post
Fred,
The 4-40 undercamber is a great airfoil. It is used on the Blue Baby, Oshkosh Special, Sea BB and many others. I can't speak highly enough for it, and can confidently recommend it. However on the Magnum Reloaded I used a KFm like you are proposing in an effort to emulate the EPP airfoil of the original model. It might just be the geometry of that model, but I am not particularly impressed with its performance. The airfoil has that constant radius look vs. the tighter radius on the front half of the wing. So its not really about the KFm portion as much as it is about the contour.

Ken
Hi Ken,

We have discussed this before, and we both agree, the 4-40 type Undercamber is such a great all round slow flyer it is almost impossible to beat. I don't use KFm type airfoils anymore but call me crazy. They are very popular and almost foolproof to make so they are here to stay.

I am actually going to go with a third type of wing, but it is late and us 'older' guys have to get some sleep when we still have kids that get up early for school! So I will cover that next time, and with lots of photos to go with it! My first Cartoon Fatty has to be 'different' right!

Thanks guys, until next time, enjoy this great life we got. Building and flying foam aircraft!

Fred
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 03:35 PM
rcflyer
UK
Joined Jun 2010
844 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie B View Post
Hi Jim. I did not make a tutorial because most people do not own, or know haw to run a lathe. Do you own a lathe? If so, maybe we could get to something like that, as I often make different prop adaptors, hubs, and other things I want to make or need!

Thanks for asking! I hope you do own some machine shop tools, because making things manually in a machine shop setting is also a dying art that I am very proud to be a part of, even if it's been a long time ago for me............

Fred
I have access to one and am eager to give it a shot! It's quite exciting thinking that those hardware can be handmade.
Where do you start?

Cheers
Jim
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 03:58 PM
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vtdiy's Avatar
Southern Vermont
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Originally Posted by Freddie B View Post
Vtdiy,
I'll be getting to more newsprint stuff soon and then maybe you can set me straight on some issues I had........Fred
Well, I'll try to, but I haven't done full curved fuselages, just boxy ones and wings.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 09:46 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
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Originally Posted by rcjim11 View Post
I have access to one and am eager to give it a shot! It's quite exciting thinking that those hardware can be handmade.
Where do you start?

Cheers
Jim
Hopefully you also have a mentor that can help setup and explain the cutting tools, etc. Then I measured the important stuff, like prop hub hole, length, and motor shaft size. You might want to copy a design your first time. What I need to do here (because I don't have collets), I try to do 3 things at the same time. Drill the shaft hole, turn the prop hub shaft, and turn all other OD areas so everything will run true. Otherwise I would have to turn the part around and true it up in a 4 jaw chuck each time (yuk)! If you hsvr the basics down already, sorry, but it is a trade that take some practice to get proficient.

I don't know about the UK, but you can take some classes to learn some of the machine shop practices.

Fred
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