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Old Aug 28, 2012, 05:43 PM
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So I made Three rings so I had one extra to mess with. I put all three on a section of the PVC pipe, wrapped this with the brown kraft paper, and taped it tight. I did this so it would be bound and not able to expand because I decided to bake my rings. Yes you know me, baked them at 220 degrees F, for 20 minutes, but first I wrapped the whole mess in some foil so that no hot air would hit anything direct.

So when done, my rings were stiffer, and held their shape as if they were made at the factory downtown. But we will see shortly, you could skip the baking step, and I would next time, if, and only if, you do what I am going to do next......

Fred



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Old Aug 28, 2012, 06:13 PM
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Well, now you've done it, you've warned me your coming so now I'm watchin! w
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 08:52 PM
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Well, now you've done it, you've warned me your coming so now I'm watchin! w
This will be cool, one big party of old guys that bulld and fly foam airplanes. I'm in the mood for some Bar-B-Que, Cold drinls, and lots of Airplane (or fish) stories! I think Joe will eat a lot, so we better get extra! LOL I think we will awit until the weather gets better BTW, and hope you and the Mrs. are doing OK during the onslaught!

Fred
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:24 PM
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Now I get to thank hoppy, for his thread on Newspaper-glue covering improvement .

I can now also thank vtdiy, and all the others that posted in hoppy's thread for all their input that makes it a must read if you haven't seen it. There are many names of those on RCG posted in that thread that have made my membership here very well enhanced, Wilfor, Warhead_71, Waltjg, Bare, Sousetheif, and others, Thanks to all of you

This is the technique I used next to cover the front half of my Nacelles. Newsprint and glue so it seems stiffened the foam tubes enough, and made them keep their shape (of the pipe they were on) well enough that baking the foam could have been skipped. I am new to this type of covering, and I will improve as I go, but so far looks to fit the bill here on this enlarged build. Adds a lot of strength, but not a lot of weight. I wouldn't do this treatment to every model, but this one is larger, and needs the extra strength. What better way without needing to add a bunch of reinforcements and extra layers of foam!

Fred



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Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:42 PM
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Dont you be getting all these builds you got going mixed up now . We all dont wanna see a ThunderYakwartacane . ... Or do we
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:59 PM
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Dont you be getting all these builds you got going mixed up now . We all dont wanna see a ThunderYakwartacane . ... Or do we
You do, you do....... Just I can't spell it, so I need your help with that! In fact it's shelfed as we speak, LOL......... Best part is it may look like a transformer if you can time the launch just right and have all 4 receivers bound to the same channel on the TXer! Hahahahah........ Reminds me of an old American song, Yak, Yak, don't talk back (don't Goggle that, My spelling is terrible, but we knew that)! Note I didn't say Hurricane, or Thunder, because my buddies in Florida are getting hammered with those as we speak.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 10:08 PM
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So some tricks going on here. I needed to make the cone shaped extension on the nacelle. So I cut some circles out of some posterboard, then I hot wire cut a cone out of 2" thick pink foam........

Wait let's stop right there. You do not need a hot wire, or to cut a cone out of foam. I was testing the high tech stuff here. This entire build could just use a couple circles cut from cardboard. The foam will form around, hold it's shape, etc, just using a circle cut to the size you need! The cone can be two circles joined between each other with even a cardboard tube, or block of scrap anything..............

Continuing, I used my fancy foam cone to trace a new template to cut fff for my parts, sort of like driving a tire around the paper while drawng both sides with a pencil. This was when I igured out I didn't need the foam cone, duh!!!! Any way I'll use it for my build.

Fred




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Old Aug 28, 2012, 10:13 PM
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Here is what I was talking about. Any cone shape we make, cardboard, foam, or other, when rolled along on a flat surface, will follow a path that is the shape we need to cut out to make a cone shaped part! Just trace the path, both sides as you roll. Who needs to buy a cone generating computer program, we can do it manually!

This part needed to be longer, and a different radius, just as my tubes were in need of enlargement. You can see in the background that I made a paper template on copy paper first, then cut out the foam part. Yes, my foam plug has a smilly on it, but it's OK, because the foam is Pink!

Fred





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Old Aug 28, 2012, 10:34 PM
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This rolling foam with a pipe and over a padded surface works so good! Then you can see I did a slight trim with a sanding block so the edges mate up tight, and glued the cones together on their edges. Don't forget your shinny tape release agent at the glue seam!

Yes, my work bench is rediculous. How could anyone work like that, or let alone find anything! I'll bet there are even unfinished airplanes hiding in there somewhere....... and a maybe that lost Balonga sandwich.... Don't touch anything, I know where everything is!

Fred



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Old Aug 29, 2012, 09:23 AM
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So I joined the tube to the cone. Photo shows that extra "3rd man out" test nacelle that I sanded a bit heavy testing the newsprint thing. I also used filler and a 1/2" cap strip of newsprint on that nacelle, the production ones won't have the extra step, just filler. We need panel lines anyway, right!

Fred





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Old Aug 29, 2012, 10:08 AM
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Let us talk about motors.....

I want to thank Sparks for his efforts on the Cartoon MiG-15 and F-86 Sabre jets with ducted propellers. They did not work out so well because the ducts were long, crowded with wing and battery, plus much lower rpm's and larger cut down props. Most reported failure to maintain flight with the original recommended gear. It was all a learnng lesson, and on this A-10 we have clean, short ducts and will move air much faster on our setup.


I will suggest two setups for motivating this A-10 Cartoon Fatty, using the ducted propeller idea. I am going to seperate these setups into two posts. I think it would be less confusing as I have a lot of data to share. The first, or setup #1 is what most of you would want to order anyway.


Setup #1:


Two (2) 2730 type 21 gram outrunner, in the 3000kv range, often referred to as "Blue Wonder". I like to buy the Keda Brand through Don at Strongrcmotors.com, here in the USA. Good service, fast delivery, and resonable prices on parts and delivery. If you are international, your favorite vendor probably seels them too. Brands I know of are Keda, Hextronic, Turnigy, etc. Do make sure to get motor mounts that fit you choice of motor brand.

Two (2): Brushless ESC, and because these motors are hot, 25 amp seems to be the minimum I would recommend (yes 25 amp!) if you are crazy and might try 3 cell setups, or want to go 3 cell in another project one day. However 15-18A ESC's will work if you follow my recomendation to go with a 2 cell setup.

Two (2): GWS 4"x4" HD propellers. Order regular prop adaptors with your motors they run more true than a prop saver, make changing props easier, and will also look cooler!

Then we would run this on a 2 cell lipo setup, and I would guess use around 1300-1800mah or larger capacity battery for longer flight times. We would burn 18(+)A total/2 motors at WOT, so 1800mah WOT is 6 minutes of flight. Let's talk about this for a second. We are making a somewhat slow flyer since it is a Cartoon Fatty. The specs below show that you could make this a 3 cell setup. But a 3 cell setup, 2 motors, would be 40(+)A, 97mph, 32 ounces of thrust, and would probably rip you wings off at anything above half throttle! So please, let us down tune this setup. If you are crazy, then be my guest, but upgrade everything, including the battery, at your own risk!

Specifications of the Keda "Blue Wonder Clone" from the website:
BR2730/3000kv, 3000 RPM per volt, 1.2A idle, 19A capable, 3s Lipo. Using a 4.5"x4.5" Propeller, Thrust is 450g/16 ounces. (yes, 16 ounces per motor).

A test I found done by a modeler shows using a 4.1"x4.1" prop, a 2s lipo, 9.28A/70W (3s lipo test was/17A/189W). So with two motors we are looking more like 18.56A/140W total at WOT. Sorry no thrust data, but the amps and watts indicate this is a good setup. The 2 cell, 9.28A (per motor) setup will be plenty, providing a smaller battery, lower weight, slower flight speed, and is what we are looking for.

Fred


EDIT: Please see post #41 below regarding motor shafts, prop adaptors, and GWS propellers.



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Old Aug 29, 2012, 11:19 AM
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Alright freddie iam getting the cone shape to make a circle ,i made my balsa cowls that way but the newspaper with no print part i dont know what you mean there or where you get it . Yes the kids keep away from me eating at any bbq and most times after too. . I think your motor selection and esc sounds great and cant wait to hear two of them fire up to life. Dont start talking about workbench hygene ,i just went out a bought 4 more storage bins to hold all my new foam stuff Freddie has made me collect over a very short time . Its amazes me how many here he has led down that dark foam path and he enjoys it to much .lmao joe
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie B View Post
Two (2) 2730 type 21 gram outrunner, in the 3000kv range, often referred to as "Blue Wonder". I like to buy the Keda Brand through Don at Strongrcmotors.com, here in the USA. Good service, fast delivery, and resonable prices on parts and delivery.
[shamelessplug]
I can second Strongrc. I've made several purchases from there and Don is phenomenal to deal with, quick responses to inane questions (from me about windings) and the shipping is always fast, like 3 days is the longest wait I've had. He also carries ESC's, and HXT900 servos. All you have to lose is a long wait for overseas shipping.

[/shamelessplug]
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cracksmeup View Post
Alright freddie iam getting the cone shape to make a circle ,i made my balsa cowls that way but the newspaper with no print part i dont know what you mean there or where you get it . Yes the kids keep away from me eating at any bbq and most times after too. . I think your motor selection and esc sounds great and cant wait to hear two of them fire up to life. Dont start talking about workbench hygene ,i just went out a bought 4 more storage bins to hold all my new foam stuff Freddie has made me collect over a very short time . Its amazes me how many here he has led down that dark foam path and he enjoys it to much .lmao joe
LOL, that is why your handle is perfect, you really do Cracks-me-up! And you must collect 4 more bins of foam stuff before Sunday, and you will say that out loud 6 times, and repeat it every hour!

The Newsprint is just newspaper type paper. I had some from packing for a move, so it has no printing on it. Walmart, U-haul, and others have it, but you could save your money. Phone books, the actual newspaper from Chicago (Tribune I Think????) works, if you primer or paint it later, who cares if it has print. Just remember you are not supposed to put the money in the Newsbox for one paper, and take ALL the newspapers home with you! Yes I was watching you! Also don't use any of those magazines you are hiding under the bed, that paper is too heavy, unless you only use a sample for decals as nose art!

And I will cover the newsprint issue some more, but it is just about perfect for the duct/nacelle. I have been trying it on flat parts and not so happy with that. So cover your nacelle and keep it's shape intact, then we will cover some more details in a bit.

BTW, you think I enjoy the foam too much, huh, do ya! Did you see anyone smiling around here? Did ya? I will never tell.............................

Fred
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dedStik View Post
[shamelessplug]
I can second Strongrc. I've made several purchases from there and Don is phenomenal to deal with, quick responses to inane questions (from me about windings) and the shipping is always fast, like 3 days is the longest wait I've had. He also carries ESC's, and HXT900 servos. All you have to lose is a long wait for overseas shipping.

[/shamelessplug]
Yeah, and did you all know Joe buys his motors from Don too. Next you will see him try to blame me for making him get a great deal, on good motors, that got shipped to him fast. Oh wait, that is a good thing so I don't think he will say anything unless it makes me look foolish, or naughty. I don't need help in either of those departments BTW.

F
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