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Old Oct 01, 2012, 07:25 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Wilfor View Post
soda for Breakfast ?
Soda for Brunch, it was 1:00PM on a Sunday, treated family to a meal. But I like soda with breakfast too, LOL.......... Dr. Pepper it is. LOL Baby gets a soda sneak ever so rare, but she would if she could! LOL.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 08:19 PM
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SNice's Avatar
Philadelphia, PA
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The build is looking great so far! I am learning sooo much as I watch and cannot wait to apply some of your techniques on future (and present) builds!

I am particularly interested in your wing build technique! Will you be adding any washout to your wingtips or is it not a concern due to this style of airframe?
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SNice View Post
The build is looking great so far! I am learning sooo much as I watch and cannot wait to apply some of your techniques on future (and present) builds!

I am particularly interested in your wing build technique! Will you be adding any washout to your wingtips or is it not a concern due to this style of airframe?
Thank you first for chiming in, and for such nice words on my build. I don't see much traffic anymore (meaning friends and comments) just views going on. Sort of lost the fun in posting when it is so quiet.

I was thinking maybe because my builds are so "Betty Repeat" or something? But if you found something to try or use, that is great! This is why I try to pass the knowledge on because we do not live forever. I do so want people to enjoy this hobby for thousands of years to come.

I have done so many wing types. I was doing the simply folded over one wooden spar thing, but will give credit to Sparks for seeing his multi-spar wings, using foam spars. My first 'test' was a foam box, tapered by using foam spars, and found it to be really strong for it's weight and materials used. Next came this wing.

As for washout, I did not build any into this one because it is a really large wing, has a Clark "Y" airfoil, and respectable span. With flaps, ailerons, and the potential to program flaperons and use flaps all at the same time I was not concerened.

But here is my suggestion. If you want washout (and most times we do), when doing the outer panels, I would sand a 1" wide foam strip, as long as the panel, into a tapered wedge, going from minimal thickness to full thick at the other end (0.1mm to 5.5mm in it's span). This wedge would be placed under the bottom wing panel (after the spars were glued to it) at the trailing edge, thickest part of wedge at the outboard tip. Just like we would do on a balsa wing build. Glue the top of the spars, set the top skin in place, weight it down, and let the glue cure while the wing has this 'Washout twist" at the TE. When it's all done, built in washout.

You can't twist washout into a builtup foam wing after construction and expect it to stay that way (if you can even get the washout into it anyway). I think I have shown the washout wedge thing in some other builds I did, but I hope my explination all makes sense. If not chime back in and I will do up a photo of what I am talking about.

Thanks again.

Fred
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 02:16 PM
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You may remember I showed the Fins and Rudders, covered in blank newsprint and glue earlier in the thread. I also made the stabilizer and elevator the same way. In determinint the results, finish was good, strength was great, stiffness and ding resistance was also very much improved. But I was not feeling so great about double the weight of virgin foam. Even though foam is light, so saying double sounds bad, it wasn't terrible, but still I wanted something lighter.

I was also noticing vast differances in the way the glue would either dry and leave the parts flat and straight, or twist and warp the parts. No consistancy. I was able to re-wet with glue, Polycrylic, or Future floorwax and get some bends out, but still I wansn't happy. Weight goes up a bit with each appliction of glue or other finishes.

Do note this is the way to go on the nacelles, but not as happy with other parts of my airframe.

Fred



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Old Oct 03, 2012, 02:50 PM
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United States, IL, Joliet
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Well then we will do a parchute landing, LOL. Hehehehe...... Remember this is an enlarged version, and fff 5.5mm foam, built up wing, etc, etc. With 20+ amps, it will need a 2100mah battery too for decent flight times I'm thinking. I also don't know yet, but we are going to be over 20 ounces????????????

I won't start out with any fancy 8 channel receiver, but it would be cool to program crow into the wing as a landing function and have it land STOL like a full house glider does.......

But Joe, you are my most avid, insightful, supportive fan that also knows a lot about building fine aircraft. You are such a kind and gentle Biker Dude, and no one knows just how nice you are but I do. If you are right, I will declare failure, and send my A-10 Fatty to Chicago so some of the tougher crowd there can tweek it for action. And you thought I wasn't a nice guy, mind in the gutter, etc.... LOL...... See how nice I am, really!
Freddie iam me and dont pretend to be anything more than what iam unlike many i run across in these forums.There are alot of behind their computer talkers arond here but the true builders like you Jurgen and some others here are never given the credit they are due. Those are the ones i watch and learn from and hope to build in foam as well as they and you do.some day joe
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 04:33 PM
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Freddie iam me and dont pretend to be anything more than what iam unlike many i run across in these forums.There are alot of behind their computer talkers arond here but the true builders like you Jurgen and some others here are never given the credit they are due. Those are the ones i watch and learn from and hope to build in foam as well as they and you do.some day joe
Well thank you Joe!

But Joe, I have seen your builds also. So I want to give you crdit too because you are a talanted man with magic hands also. Your foam builds so far look good to me, and if you aren't quite happy with them yet, join the club. I am always trying to do better also. But your balsa aircraft are so beautiful BTW. This is why I have no doubts you will be my competition soon (Lucky I don't compete or even care about that kind of thing!) LOL

Fred
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 04:42 PM
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So I went back and made a second set of tail feathers, this time covering them with 'OOO" Silkspan. My trick now is I use an Acrylic floorwax, called Pledge, and I make sure the bottle say "Now with Future Shine' on it. Future floorwax is gone, and now re-labled as Pledge, with Future shine. It's like water thin, smells pretty good, and makes the Silkspan laydown great. High volume of water makes it a bit slow to dry. It is fragile enough to peel right off when dry, so I then followup with a 50/50 mix of Tightbond II Glue and water (Yellow Carpenters Glue). At that point it is good to go, and sands up nice!

So note I have done up a set of vertical tail parts, even cut out rudders, hinge slots cut, and edges sealed with further layer of Silkspan/Glue. I have saved 4 grams. Add all the square inches up that make the outside of my aircraft and the weight savings will be plenty.


A side note is I also tried laying down Gift Wrap Tissue to foam using Pledge w/Future, and if you don't over stretch or rub too much, it makes a great medium for such action. Glue or Polycrylic as a second coat (after drying) is still needed.

Fred
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 04:52 PM
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Gulf Breeze, FL
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I don't see much traffic anymore (meaning friends and comments) just views going on. Sort of lost the fun in posting when it is so quiet.
Freddie,

You've got it all wrong thinking folks may not care...for example, I follow your builds (view), but after the first couple of times when I heap well deserved praise on you, I feel it would clutter your thread if I repeated myself with further exaltation.

Further, your graphics and explanations are so thorough, there's little clarification needed, so I don't ask. So I just sit back, "view", learn, and appreciatively enjoy your builds.

Gene K
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 06:12 PM
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Freddie,

You've got it all wrong thinking folks may not care...for example, I follow your builds (view), but after the first couple of times when I heap well deserved praise on you, I feel it would clutter your thread if I repeated myself with further exaltation.

Further, your graphics and explanations are so thorough, there's little clarification needed, so I don't ask. So I just sit back, "view", learn, and appreciatively enjoy your builds.

Gene K
That does make sense, and I don't need oow's ans ahhh's, but it is cool to know that someone is actually paying attention? If that makes sense..... If it didn't matter I could shorten these up a bit and save the typing some. If you look many f my posts are edited because dumb thumbs me spells wrong, misses letters, and some lame stuff that eats up so much time.

Thanks Gene.

Fred
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 06:19 PM
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In looking back through my photos it seems I didn't take many of the build of my tail group. I will post what I have and hopefully that will serve well enough. I will start with these, even though they were on the first tail set. It shows I decided to add a couple spars to the stabilizer only. First set it was 3mm bamboo skewer or 1/8" dowel, I forget. The second one it was .070" (slightly less than 2mm from carbon fiber rod!

Fred



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Old Oct 03, 2012, 06:26 PM
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So this is where better photos would have been cool. I thought for a while on which way to go on rudder control hookup and decided push-pull rods in snakes, hooked to a bellcrank would be positive, slop free, and able to be hidden within the stab. Hope the photos help clear things up on how I made this.

Fred



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Old Oct 05, 2012, 09:27 AM
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I had to cut some of the fuselage crutch for location of the belcrank, which mounts right on the stabilizer. I went ahead and did this cutout and a mockup to test everything before going further.

Fred



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Old Oct 05, 2012, 09:30 AM
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Elevator will have a split setup with joiner wire. Elevator and stabilizer with a 1/16" dia (1.5mm) joiner wire and hinge locations marked. These are covered in Silkspan and glue already.

Fred



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Old Oct 05, 2012, 09:58 AM
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I think I got a bit out of sequence, but I wanted to show some differances in using newsprint and glue, versus the Silkspan and glue. In the photos newsprint tail group is 46g, and silkspan tail group is 40g. BUT, do note the pushrods, snakes, filler, splits and endcaps covered are all included in the silkspan group.

Weight savings is enough to make a differance. I also like covering in the silkspan because it is quicker and easier. The parts end up real stiff and most flex is gone which is great for single thickness control surfaces. Ding resistiance is good, but this is where the newsprint is better.

Fred



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Old Oct 05, 2012, 10:05 AM
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OK I had not made covers or attached them to the wing pods. Plywood tab and magnets were the best option for me. I also wanted the wing pods to be abrasion resistant so they will get light fiberglass and resin coating, while the fuselage will get Silkspan and glue.

Fred



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