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Old Oct 02, 2012, 12:40 PM
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Thanks for the info. When flying the slower 4 ch. FP helis you definitely have more time to react when trying different stick combinations. This thing flies away pretty quickly, but still fun. Want to take it to a bigger space just to learn to fly it better. Just need the practice.

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Originally Posted by i812 View Post
I don't own a Nano (yet?), so I'm not certain y'all are describing what I think you're describing, but I think BHChieftain posted a good explanation in a different thread a while back...
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 12:57 PM
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I'd go Nano. I'm new to CP. Looked strongly at MCPx at start of year or MSRx, but did research first and realized I probably couldn't fly the MCPx inside and the MSRx some claim has a flaw (not sure but I waited on it). Hobby shop guy tried to get me to a coax, I said no, got the 9958s and V911, and a few quads recently...
This Nano is great. I tried it last week in hotel room, too much congestion. Got home on Friday flew outside still staying in relatively small front yard and over driveway and could fly it no problem. I said next I'll try in 2 car garage with cars out but still Jeep top, motorcycles, shelfs (so 1/3 of space taken), again no problem. Now I'm comfortable flying out/back sideways and back within 1 ft. of me without being afraid of it. Working on the bank turns, piros, just need some practice time. Also tried in house and didn't go through complete battery but feeling much more comfortable with it.

My issues, landing gear behind back support broke off because it snagged on hotel carpet. Main gear slides down on harder crashes. Planted tail boom straight down and it shattered 1 inch up from motor (so far just glued it). Linking starting to not always link on first try. I'm just using the dx4e, normal mode, slow rates. Eventually I plan to modify my 9x to work with this heli.

You should get it, just some adjustment from flying FP, but nothing unexpected in my opinion.

Pros to me - smaller batteries, 150mah, fairly cheap, charge quickly. I also like this size (I think it is 80 size) versus the 100 size helis.

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Originally Posted by Fidy$Trainer View Post
MCPx or Nano? I've been flying my MSR and CB100 for a long time now and ready for the next big step. I want to learn to fly 3D in either my front yard or living room.
Can anyone briefly go over pro's and con's and why you would go with either the MCPx or the Nano?
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
Here's something that's easier to believe...

A brushed motor is sufficient for the job, while being cheap enough to keep the total product cost in the sweet spot... crossing the $50 and $100 boundaries is a problem for marketing. So, if you can squeeze in under $150, you'll sell a lot more product than if it costs $151. A brushless motor would have pushed this product over the $150 boundary, and the performance of the machine is FINE with the brushed motor. Most people will be happy with it the way it is, which has been proven time and again with every micro helicopter they sell. Why mess with a proven thing?

Also, keep in mind there is nothing fundamentally wrong with brushed motors... you have been convinced there is, but that's mostly the marketing department trying to get your hard earned money.
I agree with most of what you're saying. Well, actually I agree with all of what you're saying but I think there are a few other considerations.

For me (somewhere between a beginner and intermediate heli pilot... I can do flips and I'm pretty comfortable with inverted circuits but I can't do any real 3D) the heli as it is offered is absolutely perfect. I mean - they just couldn't have given me a more perfect heli. Seriously. Between this and the 130x I have exactly what I need and I'm more than happy with both of them.

However... if I put on a different hat then I start to see a slightly different picture. If I were as good of a heli pilot as I am a fixed wing pilot (not that I'm great there either by the way but I'm worlds better at fixed wing 3D than I am at heli 3D) then I could definitely see how I'd want as much power as you could possibly cram in there at an acceptable weight.

But see... that's the cool thing about this hobby. You CAN modify it to get exactly what you want. The only thing stopping you is money and maybe time.

Anyone ever see The Simpsons episode when Homer's long-lost brother turns out to be the CEO of a major car manufacturer and he asks Homer (the average American man) to help design the "perfect" car? He ended up with the ugliest and most expensive car ever produced. HH doesn't want to do that. They are in this game to make money so the goal for them is to find the sweet spot as you mentioned.

But luckily for everyone else there will be brushless mods to get it closer to what you are hoping for I think.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 01:17 PM
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United States, WA, Seattle
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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
Here's something that's easier to believe...

A brushed motor is sufficient for the job, while being cheap enough to keep the total product cost in the sweet spot... crossing the $50 and $100 boundaries is a problem for marketing. So, if you can squeeze in under $150, you'll sell a lot more product than if it costs $151. A brushless motor would have pushed this product over the $150 boundary, and the performance of the machine is FINE with the brushed motor. Most people will be happy with it the way it is, which has been proven time and again with every micro helicopter they sell. Why mess with a proven thing?.
No that is not easier to believe for me. While brushed being ok for the job brushless can be done cheap on a mass scale with little more cost than brushed and the end user will pay more for such anyhow..... Not only that but they picked $149 as a marketable price, after all that seems not quite as high as a tag of $150 They could have sold for less but they market for as much as they can, which nothing wrong with that as they are a company after all. Even still I bought mine four $130 plus 5 shipping...surely i could have bought new brushless for $150
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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
Also, keep in mind there is nothing fundamentally wrong with brushed motors... you have been convinced there is, but that's mostly the marketing department trying to get your hard earned money.
Yes there is something wrong with brushed motors

It is more instead of needless convincing, I simply prefer brushless motors as I have done considerable personal testing over the years.. Please put what you Assume marketing has done to my brain aside...

Brushless motors run better, longer, cooler and are considerably lighter than the brushed counterpart of equal power output.
I have literally hundreds of flights on my previous mcpx's with no motor failure insight. Not only that but they are also considerably lighter than stock.

Brushed motors have failed on me between 50-100 flights on average and some sooner than that. I prefer them for the low cost of conversion to the greater power output, lower AUW and becuase they last considerably longer. IMHO it is well worth it....and that is marketing aside and personal test and usage and proof over the years of brushless converting since the 4#3 days when thier horrible brushed motors lasted 20 flights......if you were lucky
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 01:27 PM
RC Helis: My Healthy Obsession
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Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
Yeah it is pure profit margin...due in two parts brushed are cheap and brushless last too long so consumers dont buy replacements near as often.

Since Darryl said something last night, I am going to try a c05m conversion today first and see how that goes. The co5 is far easier to work with for me since i have plenty of spares when i mess up
I did complete the C05 conversion last night and the results were not as good as I expected. The heli felt sluggish and lazy even though there was a load of torque to the mains. Could be due to lower KV for the C05. Even tried the 8t and it still felt sluggish. Went back to the HP03 on 8t and the heli is quick and snappy again. I guess I'm going to stick with this combo for now.

Just ordered the 3A ESC and flashcard from Dylan to lose a little more AUW.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
No that is not easier to believe for me.
It is easier for you to believe conspiracy theories about replacement part sales numbers, than the practical economics of the situation?

Also please do not take it personally when I use the second person. I will endeavor to use "one" instead of "you" if that would be less confusing.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dkfuji View Post
I did complete the C05 conversion last night and the results were not as good as I expected. The heli felt sluggish and lazy even though there was a load of torque to the mains. Could be due to lower KV for the C05. Even tried the 8t and it still felt sluggish. Went back to the HP03 on 8t and the heli is quick and snappy again. I guess I'm going to stick with this combo for now.
ahhh too bad thanks for trying and the info though!

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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
It is easier for you to believe conspiracy theories about replacement part sales numbers, than the practical economics of the situation? .
conspiracy theories... it is very obvious that brushed cost less so they make more..and also quite normal for a company to want to sell as many replacement parts as they can to increase the overall margin. This though mostly is not looked as bad towards HH because they make up for that in there customer service, while other companies do it without

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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
Also please do not take it personally when I use the second person. I will endeavor to use "one" instead of "you" if that would be less confusing.
Then as you said be less direct...it isnt confusing as I am not too simple minded just improper communication if you dont simply mean "ME". Even more so when you talk down directly such as quoting me and stating "you have been convinced"
Unlike many I have done lots of testing and simply disagree with you about brushed to brushless
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jpconard View Post
I'd go Nano. I'm new to CP. Looked strongly at MCPx at start of year or MSRx, but did research first and realized I probably couldn't fly the MCPx inside and the MSRx some claim has a flaw (not sure but I waited on it). Hobby shop guy tried to get me to a coax, I said no, got the 9958s and V911, and a few quads recently...
I agree I got the mcpx a couple weeks before the nano was announced. I learned to over it inside but that was the extent of it. It is a blast outside. the nano is much easier but still some work inside. but once I get better control it should not be that bad.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 01:59 PM
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Has anybody heard an exact or close to exact to time frame when Dylan is coming out with his kits for the Nano? I wrote him an email asking but never heard from him. May be a secret?

Bob
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 01:59 PM
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I just picked one of these up last evening to have a helicopter to fly indoors this coming winter. I ran a quick 6 packs thru it this morning and it's a very impressive little machine. I decided to get one of these as the gyms we fly in are rather modestly sized. I have a 130X which is also a great flying heli but I figured it would be a bit fast for my skills in the smaller gyms. I guess I would be considered more of a sport pilot as I am mostly doing FFF, elevator and aileron flips, rolls and loops, am very comfortable with nose in, and inverted hovering also. Currently I am working on inverted circuits (faster circuits are easier than slow circuits) on the sim.

I was wondering if any of you have tried the bullet blades as a thread search didn't turn up much. I did see where one of the HH demo pilots seemed to prefer them. I get a little wobble once in a while and thought the bullet blades might smooth this out. Let me know if any of you have any experience with them.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
conspiracy theories... it is very obvious that brushed cost less so they make more..and also quite normal for a company to want to sell as many replacement parts as they can to increase the overall margin. This though mostly is not looked as bad towards HH because they make up for that in there customer service, while other companies do it without
I just can not picture the product team sitting in the conference room and somebody says "should it be a brushless motor" and somebody else says "naw, let's go with a brushed motor so we can sell more parts" - I just can't see that happening. They went with a brushless motor on the 130-X - I suppose they had a meeting and someone said "if we use a brushless motor, we won't be able to sell many spares" and somebody else probably said "so let's make the rear gear soft like butter and we'll make the difference that way" because that's what they did... right? I just can't see that meeting actually happening. I hear this theory all the time, but I'll never believe it.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
I just can not picture the product team sitting in the conference room and somebody says "should it be a brushless motor" and somebody else says "naw, let's go with a brushed motor so we can sell more parts" - I just can't see that happening. They went with a brushless motor on the 130-X - I suppose they had a meeting and someone said "if we use a brushless motor, we won't be able to sell many spares" and somebody else probably said "so let's make the rear gear soft like butter and we'll make the difference that way" because that's what they did... right? I just can't see that meeting actually happening. I hear this theory all the time, but I'll never believe it.
Me either.. but what I can see is something like, hey it is cheaper to do it this way and we can sell for a while and still have an upgrade path for it in the future if we can’t go smaller. I design, manufacture and sell products for a living, what do you do?

On the 130x the motor it is still a horribly cheap one that runs quite hot with the stock setup. So that too will run out faster if you run back to back packs all the time in comparison to one that is more efficient. But I dont believe that was their goal on that ...maybe they wanted to make their money on elevator servos

They also were starting off with that size directly competing with another product whereas the mcpx had nothing on release that was comparable so you can get away with less, same goes for the nano


meh...back to the nano..
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Fidy$Trainer View Post
Can anyone briefly go over pro's and con's and why you would go with either the MCPx or the Nano?
To me, the mcpx is slightly more visible outside than the nano. It's not a huge difference, though. They are both small helis, and visibility is always going to be an issue. To me, the difference is just not a big deal.

They seem to handle the wind about the same. It's hard to compare since wind conditions are never exactly the same, but my nano actually feels more solid in the wind than the mcpx.

Indoors, the nano is much better than the mcpx mainly due to the small size. It feels more stable, too. I have had trouble with carpet, though. Best to use a pizza box or a large envelope to take off.

I broke lots more parts on my mcpx than the nano, but that's not a fair comparison since I learned to fly on the mcpx. From what is being reported, the nano does seem to be more resistant to crash damage than the mcpx.

I'd go nano if I were making the decision between the two.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 02:17 PM
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I would for sure go the nano if you want durability and a real life sim.
It is the best cp trainer i have had to date. I comfortably fly it right next to my tv's..the mcpx is great but still breaks a lot easier than the nano.
I fly mine harder than most and in smaller areas than most. Also the constant crashes that is sees every flight is what i bought it for so I can try new things.
I did my first piroflips in the house the other day. Sure they were not pretty by any means..but i did them I would have never attempted such with the mcpx as that would have broken something in my house along with the heli
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 02:31 PM
It flies!!! ... so who cares ?
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As the discussion is about WHY did Horizon use YET ANOTHER brushed/brushed motor combination despite all the obvious advantages (even for total noobs - ie weight, maintenance, life span etc) there is another point I understand a little as why still brushed:

WHY OH WHY are the bearings 2x5x2 mm and Horizon seems to be the absolutely ONLY company to use these .,.., there are a gazillion alternative bearings in 2x5x2.5 mm, but practically NOTHING in 2mm - so why did they pick this size if not just purely to force people to buy their "proprietary" bearings and deprive them of alternatives ??
Of course, this is another one of these conspiracy theory ideas, but seriously, if NOT simply because of what I suggest, WHY then?????????

Anybody got any ideas?
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