HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Feb 01, 2013, 08:13 AM
when down=up, up=expensive
whichwaysup's Avatar
United States, VA, Roanoke
Joined Apr 2012
2,647 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpconard View Post
What is your issue? Mine stopped binding, pressing hard on receiver chip it would bind, when I let off it dropped out. Put a little heat to it with heat gun for about 30 seconds, long enough to see a little bit of smoke (probably glue or something - nothing started on fire)...tried binding and it bound quickly and has worked since.
Not 100% sure. I know this:
1) It will no longer bind at all
2) Prior to no longer binding at all, I was getting intermittent "drop outs" (my own term, sorry). Basically, I'd be flying it and randomly the motor would stop, the heli would drop a few feet, then it would spool up again (which led to some interesting recoveries, since it rarely fell straight!).

I pushed, wiggled, and fiddled with everything on the board, but once it stopped binding initially, it was very hard to figure out where the issue was. I sent it off, we'll see how things go.
whichwaysup is offline Find More Posts by whichwaysup
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Clever sayings
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 01, 2013, 08:26 AM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,251 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimacman
I don't understand what you are talking about.

This is STEP 2 in learning. I'm not trying to overwhelm people with how to use throttle hold plus auto-rotation to land. I'm simply explaining how throttle hold is the only way to cut the motor when you crash.

At no point did I say to cut the throttle. That is exactly what I'm saying NOT to do.
Its what you imply as the reason for learning to use hold in your video.

Step 1 learning, you're not in stunt mode. So the habit of throttle cut can be learned just as it is in a fixed pitch.

You state the reason for throttle hold is because in stunt mode you have no other way to cut the power; but that's neither absolutly true nor is it the reason learning to use throttle hold.

Hold is a flip of a switch just as switching back to normal mode is a flip of the switch. So the reason for hold has nothing to do not being able to shut down down rotation because of the mode you are in.

Pilots need to learn to maintain pitch control with the throttle stick regardless of what mode you are in independent of when they need to throttle hold. From CP flight 1 a pilot is supposed to learn a disconnect between throttle stick position and cutting drive.

You didn't say to throttle cut but your reason why you don't was only because the mode you are in which is inaccurate along with idle up.
Another way of putting it is a new person watching your video could think, well I'm not going to try stut mode so I'll keep my fingers off any switches and cut the throttle if I need to, if that's the only reason for using hold. Where as, as I was taught, always be conscious of the pitch in your throttle stick, but the moment before impact, thats when you hit the throttle hold. That focused my attention to keep flying pitch control and not associate cutting power at all with my throttle stick no matter what mode I'm flying in. I didn't understand why at first but did later when I started causing more damage by not disconnecting the two.
Maxthrottle is offline Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by Maxthrottle; Feb 01, 2013 at 09:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 08:49 AM
Billy
Australia, NSW, Newcastle
Joined Jun 2012
314 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by whichwaysup View Post
Not 100% sure. I know this:
1) It will no longer bind at all
2) Prior to no longer binding at all, I was getting intermittent "drop outs" (my own term, sorry). Basically, I'd be flying it and randomly the motor would stop, the heli would drop a few feet, then it would spool up again (which led to some interesting recoveries, since it rarely fell straight!).

I pushed, wiggled, and fiddled with everything on the board, but once it stopped binding initially, it was very hard to figure out where the issue was. I sent it off, we'll see how things go.
Did you ever change the main motor???
Billz_01 is offline Find More Posts by Billz_01
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 08:55 AM
Billy
Australia, NSW, Newcastle
Joined Jun 2012
314 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
With a given prop, thrust increases at the square of the RPM. A 2x increase in RPM will provide a 4x increase in thrust - assuming the tips don't go transonic & the prop doesn't flex.

Joel
Looks like I've really got some reading to do. Is this "A" given, or "ANY" given prop?
Billz_01 is offline Find More Posts by Billz_01
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 09:03 AM
Billy
Australia, NSW, Newcastle
Joined Jun 2012
314 Posts
Wish this rain would stop. I really need to stop trying to flip indoors. :facepalm:
Billz_01 is offline Find More Posts by Billz_01
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 09:09 AM
when down=up, up=expensive
whichwaysup's Avatar
United States, VA, Roanoke
Joined Apr 2012
2,647 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billz_01 View Post
Did you ever change the main motor???
No, I haven't had any main motor failure symptoms. I did disconnect everything from the board before attempting to bind, so if the main motor were the issue, that should have identified it, right?
whichwaysup is offline Find More Posts by whichwaysup
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Clever sayings
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 09:14 AM
Billy
Australia, NSW, Newcastle
Joined Jun 2012
314 Posts
Yeah, I would assume so. (being that you disconnect the motor and the problem was still there, that the motor is probably not the problem) I remember you mentioning that now which is why I dismissed it earlier.

Those symptoms you wrote earlier are similar to my motor failures, although I don't usually have much of a bind problem. I get drop-outs / brown outs while spooling up, and occasionally have to flick the TH switch a couple of times to get it to spool...
Billz_01 is offline Find More Posts by Billz_01
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 09:32 AM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,251 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sideburn View Post
Seems near impossible to use them all.. especially on a heli. Don't you need a giant biplane with huge wings that require 2 servos per wing, + flaps + retractable landing gear + bomb dropper + telemetry for altitude, rpm, temp, battery voltage + ejection seat for little plastic dude in the cockpit to use up 18 channels?...
On a heli as long as the radio has at least 6-8 proportional channels, and the rest above that would be scale features. On giant fixed wing, the extra channels get used up quickly because you have to start doubling up servos to each surface. So instead of matchboxes, each surface with multiple servos gets its own channel.
So if each surface got two servos, you are already at 8 channels (2 per wing, 2 Elevator, 2 Rudder) and still need throttle, choke, kill, smoke.... The even larger scale have 8 servos on the wings and 4 servos on the elevator.
Jets or scale is where you need above 12. Those become a servo per surface which say for a F-22 has 6 on the wing, 2 rudders, 2 tailerons, 2 throttle(1 per engine), 1 steering, doors, lighting....
Then there is dual RX redundancy... it adds up quick..... so the more the merrier as long as they have enough mixes to use it all.
Maxthrottle is offline Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Old Feb 01, 2013, 09:56 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
11,533 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billz_01 View Post
Looks like I've really got some reading to do. Is this "A" given, or "ANY" given prop?
It is theoretically true with any given prop - provided that the blades don't flex & the tip-speed doesn't get too high. Just like how air drag on all objects always increases at the square of the velocity until you get into the transonic ranges.

Joel
turboparker is offline Find More Posts by turboparker
RCG Plus Member
Old Feb 01, 2013, 11:12 AM
2 seconds from crashing
indoorheli's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
7,349 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimacman View Post
Switching into Idle Up *while* flying will probably be in my next step of this video series, and I will definitely make sure to mention wanting to be in positive pitch throttle range before flipping the switch.
.
Make sure you mention that not only be above midstick but also have identical upper curves from at least 50-75% where most people switch. Otherwise you will not have even transition, which for newer flyers will cause issues.
Personally I prefer 100% identical above mid but some like to limit around 80 or so in normal mode


Quote:
Originally Posted by sideburn View Post
Seems near impossible to use them all.. especially on a heli. Don't you need a giant biplane with huge wings that require 2 servos per wing, + flaps + retractable landing gear + bomb dropper + telemetry for altitude, rpm, temp, battery voltage + ejection seat for little plastic dude in the cockpit to use up 18 channels?

I just switched from dx7 to dx8 and like it execpt it feels like everything is on + expo now.. dx7 seemed a lot more touchy with the sticks...
Oh I could easily use quite a few more channels on heli's too, but I am not into that type of craft. I might be using almost all of them soon on some of my planes though.

I have a large plane I have been workin on...still very 3d capable but with lots-o-scale thrown in. It is nice to know I wont outgrow this radio for a long while.
indoorheli is online now Find More Posts by indoorheli
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by indoorheli; Feb 01, 2013 at 11:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 11:16 AM
Flyin' Ryan
theimacman's Avatar
United States, IL, Champaign
Joined May 2012
2,109 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
Make sure you mention that not only be above midstick but also have identical upper curves from at least 50-75% where most people switch. Otherwise you will not have even transition which for newer flyers will cause issues.
Noted. Thanks for the tips.

I just used whatever settings the manual said, so I will have to double check if they are the same.
theimacman is online now Find More Posts by theimacman
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 11:19 AM
Fly, fix, repeat
oobly's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Feb 2007
961 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billz_01 View Post
Please excuse my ignorance, what's a 0.4 module?

Is that 4400rpm @ 3.7v with 80% also???

I haven't seen a thrust test but I fail to see how that helps here (once again, my ignorance), as they are using fixed pitch props over a card sheet on scales. whereas we have collective pitch, and use neg p for thrust test directly on scales. Would the two different test's have a similar result? Is the nano full neg pitch equal to that of the umx props?

Could we not assume that if the stock has X thrust at Y pitch under Z load @ 4200 rpm, then X thrust would be greater @ 4400rpm (provided the weight is not dramatically altered)???
It's the size of the gear teeth, the Nano uses 0.3 I think, 0.4 is bigger, same as the Walkera 4#3 used for it's main gear. Gears usually come in set tooth counts, so you can't just choose an optimal count and order it, you have to work out the ratio and spacing using standard counts and sizes.... gets complicated. With larger teeth, you have a little more tolerance for getting a decent mesh. A 64t 0.3 module may work with a 10t or 12t pinion also.... will have to measure the sizes and see if the combined tooth contact radii equal the distance between the shaft centres.

Yup, the 4400 is with 80%, too.

The motor can produce a certain amount of thrust with all factors being optimal (prop size, gearing, pitch, etc.), so it gives an idea of how powerful the motor is if the thrust has been measured, by whichever method. If it doesn't have at least 30g under optimal condition, it definitely won't have enough power to lift the heli.

If it doesn't have enough power it'll just bog before getting up to speed and never get there or it'll get there at 0 pitch, but bog under load, so the calculated headspeed is dependent on the motor having enough power to get there and stay there without bogging.
oobly is offline Find More Posts by oobly
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 11:46 AM
Team WarpSquad
Daryoon's Avatar
San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,095 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by burggraaf View Post
Ah good point, i did limit pitch travel in my BL setup (to 85%) so that might be the difference between the stock and the BL mild kit, should i increase that back a bit more? I wouldn't have thought that that would make much difference on initial spool up power though?? I thought that would impact top end response more?

I would love to know gov setttings (my ESC came pre flashed from Dylan at my request) the ESC programming is the one bit i am nervous about. I am happy to solder and dremel and glue etc but don't have any experience in BLheli esc settings- so its running whatever it came flashed with.

Is there a way to adjust the ESC settings through the tx? -like number of beeps etc, or should i just buy a usb and start to learn about ESC program stuff- i suppose since im loving rc helis so much this is part of the gradual learning curve!
Probably not too much you need to be concern with as far as the ESC programming at this point. It'll likely convolute your problem some more.

The mild BL kit ESC comes flashed for GOV TX mode. Which means the head speed is govern to whatever your throttle curve is set.

I was trying to help you get to the bottom of your issue. But you gotta help answer the question that I ask. You confirmed that you did remember to limit your pitch travel. However, you didn't say what your throttle curve is programmed to. Are you trying to fly your BL nano in normal or idle up (stunt) mode?

So, let us know what you set your throttle curve at on your radio?
Daryoon is online now Find More Posts by Daryoon
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 12:01 PM
Augernaut
Wookster's Avatar
United States, KS, Overland Park
Joined Jan 2010
1,368 Posts
So the problem is persisting and changing. She still has a high speed tail wag, but now it includes a little random heading searching. it will start to wiggle, then turn 15 degrees to the left or right at random. Starting to wonder if the brand new tail boom was bad out of the box.
Wookster is offline Find More Posts by Wookster
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2013, 12:31 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Aug 2011
120 Posts
Does this heli have trouble piroing? I can't even do a 360 without it going crazy out of control.
kidlat is offline Find More Posts by kidlat
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cool Walkera MiNi CP - Smallest 100 sized 3D helicopter zadaw Micro Helis 5582 Jul 26, 2014 03:07 PM
Discussion is there anything better than mcpx v2 at same or smaller size? Legendary_Agent 3D Electric Heli Flying 33 Feb 24, 2012 08:46 PM
Question Whatís Better than a Blade CP and Smaller than a Trex? HavingFun2002 Micro Helis 74 Mar 05, 2006 05:07 PM