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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:04 PM
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Denver
Joined Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by Billz_01 View Post
I don't' think there really is a best scenario but more personal preference. From what I can tell, most run either the Asteroid Design mild/wild kit, or the pjacq (with the white spacers) kit. You can run stock packs with the mild kits (but ofcourse they run much better with bigger batteries), and both AD & pjacq kits seem to be easy enough to work with.
I don't know anything about the bolt on kit (with the motor hanging out the side), other than I have seen pics but no-one seems to run it. It doesn't appear to be something worth spending money on in my eyes though, just thinking about the COG being all the way off to the side is bad enough.

As for programming the speedies, the suited esc seems to be the XP3a with blheli firmware. You can program it yourself with the correct gear, and a search on the forums will tell you all the gear needed.
I have the AD mild kit, what batteries other than the stock, do you recommend?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:07 PM
when down=up, up=expensive
whichwaysup's Avatar
United States, VA, Roanoke
Joined Apr 2012
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Originally Posted by oobly View Post
Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but...

It is designed for 2s and the kv is right for running 2s on our helis. IF you run it 1s, it won't be as efficient AND you may have to have to use a much smaller maingear since the motor will be running only about 60% the speed you need. Also no idea if it will be powerful enough on 1s, but I suspect not.

May be worth a try I guess.... If it doesn't work, you can use a 2s ESC, voltage regulator and 2s LiPo to get it going, but that will weigh a ton.
I'm so far out of my league that I hesitate to say this, but this is just the tail motor, not the main BL, so I think thats why 1S is working. The reports so far have been based on fixed wing aircraft, but if the can fits in the frame AND it can run on 1S, it would be an interesting mod.

Again, I rely on the intelligent people of this thread to figure this stuff out, so anything I write is utter speculation and optimistic foolery.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:55 PM
Billy
Australia, NSW, Newcastle
Joined Jun 2012
314 Posts
Vrex, earlier on in this thread the guys were talking that the Hyperion 180 and 240's are the go, as they have a lower internal resistance and provide stable power for longer through the pack.

I have absolutely no doubt that it won't be as efficient without 2S if that is what it requires. I'm trying to find out what the specs are on the motor, and will have a better look tomorrow, (I'm in Aus, it's 4:49am here and I need to get some sleep). From what is floating around, it could be possible that it might be stronger than the stock nano motor with a 1S esc and battery. In which case it is a win. If it is not, I will not have mutilated my frame, or anything else beyond repair, and will still be able to perform either of the normal brushless mods.

I think I'm prepared to take the risk on the motor not being sufficient, as there is only $20 to lose, but much more to gain if it is a success. (Replacement stock motors at my LHS cost me about $12 and I'm on my 3rd).
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:37 PM
Fly, fix, repeat
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Tampere, Finland
Joined Feb 2007
961 Posts
Hmmm... The only concern I have is the speed, really. It's a 8100kv motor, whereas the "mild" motor is 13500kv and the "wild" is 16600kv.

kv is rpm per volt, usually in no-load condition.

So if you assume the same efficiency with load, it will run 60% the speed of the mild and about 48% the speed of the "wild" on 1s.

On 2s it's very close to the "wild" speed, faster than the mild. Maybe with a bigger pinion AND smaller maingear so the distance remains roughly the same you could get the same headspeed without having to mod the frame, but it may take a lot of experimenting.

On the positive side, I really like the idea of a "drop-in" BL motor and will try to do some more calculations and look around on the net for some gears that may work (maybe 14T pinion and smaller main?).... Would be great to have a kit which doesn't require ANY frame mods.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:48 PM
Billy
Australia, NSW, Newcastle
Joined Jun 2012
314 Posts
You're comparing it to the BL upgrades though, compare it to stock.

I want a motor to be powerful enough not to bog so bad, but nothing extreme. I just want to stop replacing main motors. And I'm all for the drop in mod, that's why I haven't upgraded yet...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 02:13 PM
Rocket Programmer
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United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,460 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dacaur View Post
why do you need throttle/pitch curves on an airplane?
The ESC does have a built in throttle curve, and in many cases it's wrong, providing a ton of uncontrollable power at the top end and leaving the whole bottom half of the stick travel representing useless power levels that are too low to do anything with... So, you bump up the bottom part of the curve and flatten the top, giving you a whole stick range of useful power levels. Some ESCs don't have this issue, but it's nice to be able to correct it when they do.

Pitch curves would be N/A for airplanes most of the time.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:44 PM
Flyin' Ryan
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United States, IL, Champaign
Joined May 2012
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I'm being told that my tip about throttling up a bit before turning on Stunt Mode is unnecessary, as the Nano CPX has a soft start when releasing throttle hold while in stunt mode.

Can anyone verify that? I was told otherwise by someone I consider a trustworthy source...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:12 PM
Go small or go home
ruzam's Avatar
Canada, SK, Regina
Joined Mar 2008
1,480 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by whichwaysup View Post
I'm so far out of my league that I hesitate to say this, but this is just the tail motor, not the main BL, so I think thats why 1S is working. The reports so far have been based on fixed wing aircraft, but if the can fits in the frame AND it can run on 1S, it would be an interesting mod.
Airplanes are way less demanding on motors than helis. That's why a night vapour can fly all day on a low rated 120 mA cell that won't even get an nano off the ground. Just look at the difference in gear ratios.

Never say never, but I just don't think this motor is going to pan out for nanos on 1S.

I had an air hogs toy micro heli that had a two stage gear reduction. There's extra loses that come from using more gears, but the thing still flew OK. I wonder if a two stage gear reduction might make one of these tiny inrunners closer to reality.

I'm so looking forward to these motors for UM airplanes.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:13 PM
2 seconds from crashing
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United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theimacman View Post
I'm being told that my tip about throttling up a bit before turning on Stunt Mode is unnecessary, as the Nano CPX has a soft start when releasing throttle hold while in stunt mode.

Can anyone verify that? I was told otherwise by someone I consider a trustworthy source...
it does have a soft start in idle up
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:17 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theimacman View Post
...Can anyone verify that? I was told otherwise by someone I consider a trustworthy source...
Throttle Hold isn't exactly there for as you described it.

Even though the nCPX doesn't auto well, hitting hold and going to higher pitch lift is the habit we are supposed to learn to soften impact or avoid it altogether by continuing to fly without power, gear or clutch engaged. And if you do impact its not still doing the funcky chicken on the ground.

A necessary reflex even for larger heli's.

Cutting the throttle you instantly give up lift usually increasing the impact because low throttle is slight neg lift.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:27 PM
Flyin' Ryan
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United States, IL, Champaign
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
Throttle Hold isn't exactly there for as you described it.

Even though the nCPX doesn't auto well, hitting hold and going to higher pitch lift is the habit we are supposed to learn to soften impact or avoid it altogether by continuing to fly without power, gear or clutch engaged. And if you do impact its not still doing the funcky chicken on the ground.

A necessary reflex even for larger heli's.

Cutting the throttle you instantly give up lift usually increasing the impact because low throttle is slight neg lift.
This is a video series for beginning CP pilots. Auto-rotation is WAY WAY WAY down the road.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:35 PM
2 seconds from crashing
indoorheli's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
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I just watched your vid, nice idea on teaching people

Idle up doesn't make your heli spin at 100% throttle the curve does that For example, brushless most seem to prefer 60-80% for personal preference Headspeed and headroom.
If while flying, It is also better to change to idle up above 50% stick (65% plus) so your heli doesn't fall on transition. It is also a good idea to match your curves for normal and idle from 50% to at least 75%.

Though since the heli does have soft start from Throttle hold you can spool up at a 100% just fine.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:37 PM
Augernaut
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United States, KS, Overland Park
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theimacman View Post
This is a video series for beginning CP pilots. Auto-rotation is WAY WAY WAY down the road.
Actually the time for it is right now. when things go awry, you need to be hiting the throttle hold. My bad habit was developed from flying fixed pitch helis. first flight with the mcpx, it got away from me, so i cut the throttle like in my FP out of reflex, buried it skid first into the ground. Gotta get good habits early to help the learning curve later, hitting TH when in doubt is the first step.

As a side note on soft start. If you move up to a 450, mke sure you never flip the TH back off before the rotor is completely stopped. it's instant 100% power, couple 360 rotations on the ground, and a brown stain in the shorts.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:48 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theimacman View Post
This is a video series for beginning CP pilots. Auto-rotation is WAY WAY WAY down the road.
It has nothing to do with Autos. By cutting the throttle you immediately lock the blade in the min throttle condition; usually negative. So by cutting throttle you just threw it to the ground instead of cutting throttle with the hold, and feathering the pitch to your advantage.
If you get in the throttle stick cut habit, its harder to un learn it.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:51 PM
Flyin' Ryan
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United States, IL, Champaign
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
I just watched your vid, nice idea on teaching people

Idle up doesn't make your heli spin at 100% throttle the curve does that For example, brushless most seem to prefer 60-80% for personal preference Headspeed and headroom.
If while flying, It is also better to change to idle up above 50% stick (65% plus) so your heli doesn't fall on transition. It is also a good idea to match your curves for normal and idle from 50% to at least 75%.

Though since the heli does have soft start from Throttle hold you can spool up at a 100% just fine.
Thanks.

Ah, yeah, I probably should've clarified that by "100%" I just meant 'full speed', according to whatever you set in your radio.

Switching into Idle Up *while* flying will probably be in my next step of this video series, and I will definitely make sure to mention wanting to be in positive pitch throttle range before flipping the switch.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookster View Post
Actually the time for it is right now. when things go awry, you need to be hiting the throttle hold. My bad habit was developed from flying fixed pitch helis. first flight with the mcpx, it got away from me, so i cut the throttle like in my FP out of reflex, buried it skid first into the ground. Gotta get good habits early to help the learning curve later, hitting TH when in doubt is the first step.
Did you watch the video? That is exactly what I'm teaching in the video... to learn to use it before creating bad habits. I just didn't get into using it as a way to do Auto-rotation 'landings'.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
It has nothing to do with Autos. By cutting the throttle you immediately lock the blade in the min throttle condition; usually negative. So by cutting throttle you just threw it to the ground instead of cutting throttle with the hold, and feathering the pitch to your advantage.
If you get in the throttle stick cut habit, its harder to un learn it.
I don't understand what you are talking about.

This is STEP 2 in learning. I'm not trying to overwhelm people with how to use throttle hold plus auto-rotation to land. I'm simply explaining how throttle hold is the only way to cut the motor when you crash.

At no point did I say to cut the throttle. That is exactly what I'm saying NOT to do.
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Last edited by theimacman; Jan 31, 2013 at 06:07 PM.
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