SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 26, 2012, 07:50 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2005
30 Posts
Help!
Guardian 2D/3D upside down setup

Hi,
Apologies if this has already been answered but if so I couldn't find it.
I have a Guardian 2D/3D which has been mounted upside down as shown on page 6 of the manual (fig 5 diagram 2). It had previously been mounted upright in a different airframe and worked perfectly. As expected the roll and pitch directions were wrong and had to be reversed.
Problem: I can't get the 'reset level and trim' mode toggling to work.
If I turn the model upside down the toggling works but not when it's the right way up so the radio is set up OK.
If the model is upright (Guardian inverted) the ailerons go to the full deflection - obviously the Guardian doesn't know it's inverted.
I connected it to the PC and at the software 'General' page clicked on 'Reset Neutral servo deflection' and 'Reset Level pitch/roll' that has cured the problem in that the Guardian does not instantly try a full deflection roll and seems to stabilize on the bench (i.e. it will probably work fine in the air)
However, the mode toggling from the Tx still doesn't work. All I get is a slow surface movement. (Like it's more than 25 degrees off axis) - No single or double twitch

Is this a known problem? It's obviously not a catastrophic problem but it will stop any trim changes being set at the field.

Alternatively -- what am I doing wrong? Obviously the Tx Mode and gain are set up OK and apart from being inverted, the Guardian 2D/3D is at approx zero degrees from the axes.

Heeeelp TIA

RogWar
RogWarTheOAP is offline Find More Posts by RogWarTheOAP
Last edited by RogWarTheOAP; Aug 27, 2012 at 05:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 28, 2012, 12:43 PM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,726 Posts
I have a setup where the Guardian needed to be mounted on the bottom and this was my solution.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=266

Top of Guardian is against a piece of high density rubber foam and a velcro strap holds it in place.

It has to be unstraped to make pot (gain) adjustments but to me it os not that big of a deal.

Charles
everydayflyer is online now Find More Posts by everydayflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 06:11 PM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2005
30 Posts
Charles - Thanks for the input. -
So it's not just me then, it is a known 'feature'. So why on earth not mention it in the manual?
Better still, update the firmware so that once it has been reset from the PC, it remembers the orientation and works OK from the mode switch toggle?

Trouble is that because I didn't know about it, I mounted with double sided foam tape which is a b*gger to remove.

Ho Hum - time for a rethink.
RogWar
RogWarTheOAP is offline Find More Posts by RogWarTheOAP
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 01, 2012, 12:44 PM
billpa's Avatar
Joined Nov 2003
4,934 Posts
RogWar,

There should not be an issue mounting the unit upside down, with the pots facing toward the ground, as long as the plane icon on the Guardian is pointing in the direction of travel. It is designed to work in this mode (once level flight is reset).

To make sure I understand, it is working correctly upside down, but your mode switch is not letting you switch modes?

As an experiment, could you try the radio stick gesture method of resetting level flight/trims, and then see if the mode switch?

And/or, as a test, could you invert the plane, and then use the reset level flight button in the PC software, and then confirm your mode switch works correctly? That will eliminate the "upside down" variable.
billpa is offline Find More Posts by billpa
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 02, 2012, 01:08 PM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2005
30 Posts
Billpa,

Firstly let me say that I have two of these Guardian 2D/3Ds They have been tried in two different airframes with two different radio sets so this is unlikely to be a hardware fault.
Secondly I have used the 10.43beta software and clicked the update button. F/W is rev 1.17.

It also appears that I am not the only one to have this effect - see everydayflyers reply above.

Your specific questions:

“it is working correctly upside down, but your mode switch is not letting you switch modes?”

Incorrect. Its is working correctly (after reset level by PC) and the Mode switch allows me to switch between 2D/off/3D OK BUT I cannot use the mode switch gestures in the first 15 second after power up. The toggling is just ignored. So at the field I cannot reset level and trims.

“could you try the radio stick gesture method of resetting level flight/trims, and then see if the mode switch?”

No I can’t for the simple reason that I cannot get into the Radio Stick Menu mode because the mode switch toggling doesn’t work. In any case, according to the manual it isn’t possible to reset level and trims from the radio stick menus.

“could you invert the plane, and then use the reset level flight button in the PC software, and then confirm your mode switch works correctly?”


Yes, as already explained the reset from the Software works regardless of which way up the airframe is and having done that, the mode switch works fine for switching between 2D/OFF/3D BUT it still will only accept the mode switch toggle gestures if the airframe is inverted (Guardian upright)

You also said:-

“as long as the plane icon on the Guardian is pointing in the direction of travel”
Well I’ve tried it on the bench with the Guardian upright but facing backward (USB connector towards the tail) and it appears to work perfectly ‘though granted that I haven’t tried it in the air (yet). Off hand I can’t see any reason why it wouldn’t as long as the servos go the right way.

Thanks for your attention to this matter

Rogwar
RogWarTheOAP is offline Find More Posts by RogWarTheOAP
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 03:00 PM
billpa's Avatar
Joined Nov 2003
4,934 Posts
Hi Rogwar,

Thanks for the information. We're looking into this.
billpa is offline Find More Posts by billpa
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 05, 2012, 05:28 PM
billpa's Avatar
Joined Nov 2003
4,934 Posts
Hi Rogwar,

We tried this here today and it worked correctly. :S So, this is a bit of a mystery.

Would you be able to try the following:
a) make sure that the model (actually the guardian unit) is not tilted more than 25 degrees past inverted in any direction (I assume this is the case?)
b) connect the battery
c) observe the control surfaces,and wait until they reach approximately normal trim (no more than 10 seconds)
d) at that point, try the reset gesture
billpa is offline Find More Posts by billpa
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 06, 2012, 11:00 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2005
30 Posts
OK I'm now doing this on the bench without an airframe to get in the way.
First off I connected to the PC and clicked on 'factory reset' just to make sure I hadn't left it in a strange state.
With the Guardian flat on the bench upright I checked that it functioned OK and the Mode switch gestures worked - They were OK.

I turned the Guardian/Rx power off,and turned the guardian over so that it's laying flat on the bench upside down I.e It's well within 5 degrees - never mind 25 degrees
Starting with the servos at normal trim (from the upright check) I switched on the Guardian & Rx. The Aileron servo crept to full throw. If I toggle the Mode switch at that point nothing happens BUT I now find that if I repeat this but wait at least 10 seconds (timed by watch) but less than 15 seconds it works and the level/trim reset has taken OK.

So it appears that there is an omission in the manual. If the Guardian is upright, the toggle works at any time up to 15 seconds after Power On but if the Guardian is inverted, the toggle only works between 10 and 15 seconds.

It's always possible that I've missed something in the manual (it wouldn't be the first time) but I don't think so. Perhaps a manual update is indicated?

Anyway thanks for your help - it's nice to know that somebody out there cares.

Just one more question:- Is there really any reason (if so what?) that the Guardian can't be used facing backwards? In the airframe on the bench it works perfectly and in one particular installation it's either mount backwards to get the cables in the right place or mount 2 inches forward of C of G. I've no idea how far too far from C of G is? However I can't think of any reason that it wouldn't work facing backwards.

RogWar
RogWarTheOAP is offline Find More Posts by RogWarTheOAP
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 07, 2012, 04:36 PM
billpa's Avatar
Joined Nov 2003
4,934 Posts
Hi RogWar,

That's great news - thanks for the update. It's due to a recently discovered "feature" during initialization when the Guardian is upside down. We will be addressing it in a future firmware update but glad the workaround is working for now.

Re mounting the Guardian backwards:
a) we have not tested or characterized it, so it's not presently supported, since we don't know whether it will work reliably in any/all conditions
b) I believe at least one person is doing it based on forum post photos I've seen, FWIW.

Re CG, this is also difficult to quantify, but I would not think 2" off CG would matter significantly.
billpa is offline Find More Posts by billpa
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 07, 2012, 06:35 PM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2005
30 Posts
OK - Thanks for that. As a matter of interest does the PC software automatically go to fetch new firmware or do I have to tell to go seek or perhaps download new software?

Rogwar


UPDATE: The installation facing backwards (but upright) has now been flown and appears to be working fine
RogWarTheOAP is offline Find More Posts by RogWarTheOAP
Last edited by RogWarTheOAP; Sep 08, 2012 at 12:14 PM. Reason: New information.
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2012, 01:31 PM
billpa's Avatar
Joined Nov 2003
4,934 Posts
Hi Rogwar,

Funny you should mention automatic PC update. We have a big feature implemented, but not deployed, that looks at the ET hardware and prompts you to download our latest software if your particular HW needs a firmware update. We should be deploying that soon, but for now, there is a sticky thread you can subscribe to on this forum that gets updated when we post new beta versions.
billpa is offline Find More Posts by billpa
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 12, 2012, 02:53 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2005
30 Posts
OK Thanks for the info.

RogWar
RogWarTheOAP is offline Find More Posts by RogWarTheOAP
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2012, 04:41 PM
Registered User
tvtech's Avatar
Midlands UK
Joined Aug 2003
14 Posts
ET Guardian

I to have a problem having first fitted my et Guardian Inverted in an Acro Wot worked fine , Then transferred the unit to a Wot4 Mounted right side up again worked fine .
However fitting the unit Back in an Acro Wot Inverted I just can't get it to work correctly in 2D mode 3D mode is fine and the set up Toggle switching seems normal but when switched to 2D I get almost Full Aileron deflection ,
If I move the aileron stick on the TX it centres the ailerons ok but the deflection reoccurs next time 2D mode is selected .
As a temporary fix I've mounted the unit right side up having adjusted the controls in advance . Regards Ken Davies
tvtech is offline Find More Posts by tvtech
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 12:37 PM
billpa's Avatar
Joined Nov 2003
4,934 Posts
Hi, I'm assuming you are waiting about 10 seconds after powerup, before doing the reset level gesture, when the unit is upside down?

We are very close to releasing a new software/firmware update for the units that will fully resolve the issue.
billpa is offline Find More Posts by billpa
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 27, 2013, 05:21 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2005
30 Posts
OK Billpa - How soon is "very close"? After all, it's over 3 months now.

Rogwar
RogWarTheOAP is offline Find More Posts by RogWarTheOAP
Last edited by RogWarTheOAP; Feb 27, 2013 at 09:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion EagleTree RTH with Guardian 2D/3D schumixmd Eagle Tree Systems 3 May 08, 2013 03:59 AM
Help! Guardian 2D /3D setup question MJ_Murph Eagle Tree Systems 1 Aug 21, 2012 01:11 PM
Discussion Guardian 2D/3D Stabilizer rjrobbin Eagle Tree Systems 2 Aug 08, 2012 02:18 PM
Discussion Guardian 2d/3d problem dgavalis Eagle Tree Systems 1 Jul 06, 2012 08:37 PM
Discussion Guardian 2d/3d dgavalis Eagle Tree Systems 0 Jul 06, 2012 06:05 AM