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Old Sep 20, 2012, 02:13 AM
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mongo56's Avatar
Slovenia
Joined Aug 2007
406 Posts
Got my kit yesterday. Had to flash the escs and the kk2 first so I didn't have much time for the frame itself.
I'm not to pleased about the pivot mechanism. I've ordered a thrust bearing which should hopefully eliminate the slop completely.
I also had to enlarge the slots for the servo plate quite a bit to get it to fit together.
I hope I'll make some progress today and post a few pictures.

edit: Be careful not to tighten the screws to much. I've managed to snap off two heads (M3x6), the screw quality seems to be on par with HK helicopters (i.e. crappy).
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Last edited by mongo56; Sep 20, 2012 at 03:15 AM.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 01:29 PM
Fly, crash, rebuild.
United States, NY, Shelter Island
Joined May 2011
880 Posts
I installed the esc leads in the front arms last night. They fit but if I crash, I will have to work hard to replace an arm. Removing the bullet connectors to pass through the pivot or the ease reassembly. I see Ho has tricopter spare parts listed but not the tail pieces yet. Curious when that'll be. $8 for 3 cf arms preslotted doesn't seem bad.
H
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:00 PM
Fly, crash, rebuild.
United States, NY, Shelter Island
Joined May 2011
880 Posts
Looks good, I still need to do the rear motor wires. Did you run the tail servo lead through the arm? I'm thinking of soldering on an extension. Not tonight though, watching "man on a ledge".
H
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 10:40 PM
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Canada, ON, Windsor
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongo56 View Post
Mostly finished. I still have to wire everything up.
New to multis, and fairly new to electrics, so may I ask if (and why) you're using a standalone BEC? If my ESCs can do 3A can I just run one to a KK2 in M1, desolder the +ve lead on the others and call it a day?

Also, are your prop adapters the ones from the accessory kit for the 2826 motors, or another type?

Sorry if my questions are noobish, but I'm returning to the hobby after a long break, and I was a nitro flyer before. My HK order just shipped, and I'm looking for best practice build details.

Still in the FPV research stage, so not ready to purchase anything there yet
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Old Sep 21, 2012, 01:09 AM
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mongo56's Avatar
Slovenia
Joined Aug 2007
406 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invid View Post
New to multis, and fairly new to electrics, so may I ask if (and why) you're using a standalone BEC? If my ESCs can do 3A can I just run one to a KK2 in M1, desolder the +ve lead on the others and call it a day?

Also, are your prop adapters the ones from the accessory kit for the 2826 motors, or another type?

Sorry if my questions are noobish, but I'm returning to the hobby after a long break, and I was a nitro flyer before. My HK order just shipped, and I'm looking for best practice build details.

Still in the FPV research stage, so not ready to purchase anything there yet
No need to apologize, we were all there at some point.

I will be running 4S and I don't feel comfortable using the integrated linear BECs (they heat up like hell on 4S).
You could just do it like you said but be aware that M1 only supplies power to the KK2, M2-M8 are bridged.
I'd suggest using one for the KK2(M1) and another for the servo and receiver(M2-M8).

Yes, I'm using the accessory kit for the motors.

And yes my tail servo lead goes through the arm
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Old Sep 21, 2012, 05:52 AM
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Joined Dec 2011
249 Posts
Just finished my Talon Tri and is very happy so far.

Only mods I've done:

Mounted all motor mounts upside-down compared to the manual. If you ask me the manual is wrong here. At least with the screws that followed my T-Motors. You can see why in the image.

I also mounted the camera plate on rubber dampeners under the frame.

My experience with cables inside the arms is not very good. You can't see the cables and possible wear and tear. When I recently dismounted a quad I have with the cables inside the arms I realised that it was just a question of time before one of the cables would snap...

And it's a pain to change motors or ESCs. I like to build the frame and mount all electronics so that I can change anything without dismantling the frame. Doesn't look that good, but for me this hobby is about reliable flying and nice AP, not aesthetics regarding the machine.

And my BEST advice? Use loctite on ALL screws. I forgot one, and that is to be found somewhere out there in the field... Fell off during the second flight.

Spec:
Tiger 2216-11 900 KV motors
HK F30A SimonK ESC
FC: FreeFlight 1.2 running Baseflight (MultiWii)
Graupner 10x5 props
GoPro Hero 2 1280x720 50p
Turnigy Nano 4S 2200 mAh giving 7 minutes with full FPV equipment and GoPro in waterproof case.

More images in this set on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eirikso...7631587363897/

I've set the P-values a bit too high, so there is a constant wobble in the video. Still, no jello and pure, stable, powerful flying with this machine! Some fine PID-tuning and I'm there.

Test of my Turnigy Talon Tricopter from Hobbyking (4 min 41 sec)


First clip is LOS, all on board footage is FPV.
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Old Sep 21, 2012, 11:56 AM
Fly, crash, rebuild.
United States, NY, Shelter Island
Joined May 2011
880 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eirikso View Post
Just finished my Talon Tri and is very happy so far.

Spec:
Tiger 2216-11 900 KV motors
HK F30A SimonK ESC
FC: FreeFlight 1.2 running Baseflight (MultiWii)
Graupner 10x5 props
GoPro Hero 2 1280x720 50p
Turnigy Nano 4S 2200 mAh giving 7 minutes with full FPV equipment and GoPro in waterproof case.
Eirik,
Very Nice!
How do you like the TGY 212DMH servo? what's your take on the frame and vibrations? I too like the dampeners and will get some. I think AGL hobbies Rusty's has them. 3mmX8mm types?

I'm in agreement on the loc-tite of the screws. Don't want anything falling off. I rounded the sharp edges on the arms and hope to minimize the wear. I agree it will be a pain to replace motors and Arms, but not ESCs the way I configured it.

Your FC with Baseflight, what has been your experience with multiwii and setting it up. Steep learning curve? I've mastered the KK and & KK2 boards and SimonK firmware flashing. I'd like GPS and RTH feature on this? is it worth the effort?
Are you using Bluetooth module to adjust PIDs etc?

Thanks,
H
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Old Sep 21, 2012, 02:09 PM
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mongo56's Avatar
Slovenia
Joined Aug 2007
406 Posts
This thing flies great.

I do have one serious issue though.
The motors start to pulsate randomly anywhere above 70% throttle when connected to the KK2. Managed to burn one because of this.

NTM 28-26 1200KV with 8x4.5 props on 4S, pulling 20A per motor at peak.
Flashed HK blue series 20A.

The weird thing is it doesn't happen when I'm using the servo tester. I've ran the motor for a minute at max throttle and it gets a bit warm but that's all.

Could it be that the update frequency is to high? I certainly seems that way, it starts to pulsate, almost like the timing's is off.

I tried lowering the update rate in the mixer settings but you can't when set to ESC.

Anyone experienced something similar?
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Old Sep 21, 2012, 04:17 PM
Fly, crash, rebuild.
United States, NY, Shelter Island
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongo56 View Post
This thing flies great.

I do have one serious issue though.
The motors start to pulsate randomly anywhere above 70% throttle when connected to the KK2. Managed to burn one because of this.

NTM 28-26 1200KV with 8x4.5 props on 4S, pulling 20A per motor at peak.
Flashed HK blue series 20A.

The weird thing is it doesn't happen when I'm using the servo tester. I've ran the motor for a minute at max throttle and it gets a bit warm but that's all.

Could it be that the update frequency is to high? I certainly seems that way, it starts to pulsate, almost like the timing's is off.

I tried lowering the update rate in the mixer settings but you can't when set to ESC.

Anyone experienced something similar?
Nothing similar on my Hexa with NTM 2826 1000KV motors with 8x4.7 Gemfans, but I am running F30A simonK'ed escs. 20 amp rating is subjective and you may be causing issues in your ESCs at that amp draw on a 20 amp rating. Does it do this immediately or after 2 or 5 min of flying?

Also, pulsing can be virbations that are messing with the KK2. your servo is digital? is it set to high? The draw from the KK2 and digital servo could challenge a 4S setup and over heat the BEC in the ESCs maybe?
At Full bore, your 1200Kv motor on 4S will run 17,000 RPMs maybe your props are the problem. They could be flexing.
H
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Old Sep 21, 2012, 04:35 PM
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mongo56's Avatar
Slovenia
Joined Aug 2007
406 Posts
The KK2 is probably just over driving the ESCs at higher loads and they go into over current protection mode. I'll cut the props down 0.5", should do the trick.

Or go 3S and bigger props, I hate big props though, not nimble enough.
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Old Sep 21, 2012, 05:37 PM
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Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterock View Post
Eirik,
Very Nice!
How do you like the TGY 212DMH servo? what's your take on the frame and vibrations? I too like the dampeners and will get some. I think AGL hobbies Rusty's has them. 3mmX8mm types?

I'm in agreement on the loc-tite of the screws. Don't want anything falling off. I rounded the sharp edges on the arms and hope to minimize the wear. I agree it will be a pain to replace motors and Arms, but not ESCs the way I configured it.

Your FC with Baseflight, what has been your experience with multiwii and setting it up. Steep learning curve? I've mastered the KK and & KK2 boards and SimonK firmware flashing. I'd like GPS and RTH feature on this? is it worth the effort?
Are you using Bluetooth module to adjust PIDs etc?

Thanks,
H
I ordered the TGY212DMH because the TGY-306G was in backorder when I ordered the frame. Now I have a TGY-306G coming my way as well. But so far the 212 has worked well. It's not hot after my flights and the copter is dead stable and responds well to yaw input. So I guess the 212 is OK. Even if it is less powerful than the 306.

I used these rubber dampeners: http://www.goodluckbuy.com/m3-anti-v...lation-x4.html

Rounding the sharp edges sounds like a good idea. After all... cables inside the arms looks veeery clean.

FC:
I have KK, KK2, OpenPilot CC, Naza, Rabbit and FreeFlight with both stock firmware and now with MultiWii.

I think KK2 is the easiest to configure by far. The Naza was also easy to set up, but it is expensive and doesn't support tricopters. OPCC is a very nice FC but impossible to get hold of.

The rabbit was pretty easy to set up. Very stable in rate and auto level. But the GPS and baro is unreliable. In other words useless at this point. And I don't like the fact that it seems like they have used MWC-code without following the GPL.

So, for the FF with Baseflight. Yes, pretty steep learning curve. But not too bad. And when everything is up and running it is a very nice system. Complete flexibility and very stable. But I'm running it clean with gyro and acc only.

Haven't tried GPS on it. But as far as I understand people have mixed experience with that. I think the main problem is that the mag is disturbed by electronics on board.

From what I've seen the best GPS PH that is sub microcopter/Wookong-price is the Naza with GPS. Had it demonstrated a couple of weeks ago. It was freaking hanging mid air like it was glued to something invisible.

I really love the quick and reliable system for folding this Talon Tri. See that nice and travel friendly solution in the attached image. So at some point I guess I'll order another one and make an Y6 of it. And put my Naza on that one.

But for now: I've lowered the P and my current Tri is utterly stable and ready for some more flights!
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Old Sep 22, 2012, 09:38 AM
Fly, crash, rebuild.
United States, NY, Shelter Island
Joined May 2011
880 Posts
Caution! By turning the motor mounts upside down, my motor screws went in too deep causing them to harm the windings of the motor. This caused a pulsing which mongo may have been talking about! H
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Old Sep 22, 2012, 11:01 AM
If it flies, I can crash it!
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Naperville, IL
Joined Aug 2010
1,161 Posts
Nice work guys! These Talon frames look great and fly great. For those of you worried about Multiwii being hard to configure and having a steep learning curve, they really aren't that bad. And in my experience, are about the most stable solution out there for the price. I fly gyro and acc only, and mostly gyro only on my multiwii controllers. The mag and baro are ok, but for super smooth flight during video shooting, gyro only in a multiwii is hard to beat. My Multiwiicopter.com Y6 with a Paris controller running multiwii will hover hands off for a very long time on gyro acc only. As far as GPS on multiwii, there are very mixed results so far, some good some bad. But multiwii is always being improved and updated at a pretty fast pace, so it most likely won't be long before they get the mag, baro, and GPS working as good as an expensive DJI system.

I'm thinking about putting the new Paris controller in my Talon frame when I get it. Here is a link to it. Not a bad conroller for the price. Everything is well integrated, and for $160 you can have it with the I2C GPS module with the magnetometer on the GPS module and far away from the electrical interference on the controller:

Paris V4r6 controller with Sirius:

http://www.multiwiicopter.com/produc...irius-v4r6-usb

GPS mag module:

http://www.multiwiicopter.com/produc...multiwiicopter

They even have a cool display/programmer for adjusting PID settings on the fly without a computer, here:

http://www.multiwiicopter.com/products/1-oled

And no, I am not affiliated with muliwiicopter.com, just a happy customer of their products who think they make really great stuff. Their circuit boards are of the highest quality, and they use quality compnonents.

Doug
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Old Sep 22, 2012, 12:57 PM
Mmmmmmm!
WiseDuck's Avatar
Kingdom of Sweden, Dalarna County, Sater
Joined Oct 2011
3,353 Posts
About the pulsating motors, NTM 1200kv motors have issues with flashed ESCs. I advice you NOT to use those motors with 1200kv NTM motors. Search on Youtube, you'll find that others have the same issue. It happens whenever you move the throttle up too fast, the motors stall, shriek and everything comes crashing down.

NTM 28 26 1200kV SimonK firmware (0 min 19 sec)
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