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Old Dec 11, 2012, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by shelterock View Post
RCTimer has a 4215 motor for $33 that can swing a 16" prop on 3S at 12~13 amps, producing 1000g+ of lift. 3 of those bad boys on 3S or 2S and 5000mAH pack, cheapest option, and you could fly for days!!!! I think a 380mm arm option could handle 16 or 15" props, 2S drawing 10 amps per motor, 30 amps total, 750g of lift on each motor, 2KG+ of lift on a 1Kg frame..... ummmh I thinking!!
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo...1&productname=
it can hover at 3-4Amps pushing 350G per motor on 3S. 5000mAh at 5 amp draw = 1hour X 3 motors, 20 min~ on a Turnigy 20C 5000mah pack for $24
Yes, theory..... Vs. Reality, who knows but I'm thinking of giving it a try.
H
I am thinking of going this route in my build, but I have concerns about breaking an arm when all loaded up with FPV gear and a big battery. In a static condition it all sounds reasonable, but is it at 2 or more G? I was thinking of bonding another carbon tube inside of the arms if it became necessary.

It might even be possible to sleeve a 10mm tube into a 12mm one to beef it up and then slip a 14mm over it to make telescopic arms for extreme portability. You should be able to shorten a 380mm tube down to 200 or so that way. Also, you could alter the length of the tail arm to maintain CG if changing payload. This is of interest to me since I drive a smart car and I don't have much room behind the seats, plus I have some telescoping carbon tube on hand.

What do you think, worth the trouble?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:02 PM
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Canada, AB, Division No. 6
Joined May 2012
21 Posts
I can't see breaking an arm in normal flight, even with the crazy auto level corrections you can set up in the newest KK2 firmware.
My tri with long booms and 11" props is 24.5"X11"(tail prop is sideways)X4" folded up.
If you don't have enough room for that, you must have trouble bringing groceries home...
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:46 AM
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United States, OR, Bend
Joined Jan 2008
252 Posts
Hey AutoXX.

Im wanting to do a similar build as yours with the APM2.5 and GoPro3.

Im hoping to use this motor (Long Booms) to try it out - Turnigy_D3536_9_910KV_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.ht ml and go to better motors later.

with this ESC Next Level Multi-Rotor ESC with SimonK Firmware - 40A

I also have an idea for a tailboom mod that Ill PM you about.

Shelterock - I couldnt see the weight of those motors... Im interested in making 2 of these Tris but I would like a big stable one and a smaller twitchy one.... Hmmmm
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 05:39 AM
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Canada, AB, Division No. 6
Joined May 2012
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I'm actually doing the same thing myself, I can't seem to find info on how size or motor kv affects PIDs so I ordered another talon tri and will use stock booms on it. I'll post a short video with both in the air if I can find someone to pilot the other bird.
I could be wrong but for brushless motors the only thing a high quality motor will do for you is improve efficiency a bit with better magnets, core, and windings.
If you upgrade the bearings to ceramic coated (cheap) or full ceramic (frikken pricey) the rest of the motor doesn't really make much difference. These are what I swapped with for the NTM motors
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/190719305307?...84.m1497.l2649 (I haven't got thrust bearings in the bottom of the tricopter motors yet)
I'm not sure if he is getting any more in, already asked if he would but he kinda wants me to buy a ton of them and resell (not gonna happen).
Get something that will be cheap to fix or replace and you will throw it around harder without worrying so much.
There are also parts on the way to make a dirt cheap scratch built tri with solid CF doubled booms and delrin motor/arm mounts... Should be sturdy but simple and light.
I don't have APM 2.5 on the tri but with the hexcopter (long booms) I had to drop the roll/pitch P value a LOT before it didn't wander all over the place. Get a 433 or 900mhz telemetry radio for it, it will take FOREVER to tune it without
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/251129230384?...84.m1497.l2649
This one is what I am using but you can find them other places cheaper. IIRC rctimer has one pretty cheap. After you get it tuned it is nice to pull the telemetry radio and have a ~$60 OSD to plug in that displays any info you could want.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:24 AM
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United States, OR, Bend
Joined Jan 2008
252 Posts
hey autoXX...I had a feeling that the NTM motors were made with crap bearings...I was wondering if you were going to be able to source new bearings for both ends.

Ill be ordering the 900MhZ kit of the APM 2.5 with te minimOSD.... gonna be interesting to see how it does.

So if anyone has an opinion of how those motors & ESCs from my previous post are please let me hear it.

thanks a lot guys

Jeff
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:06 AM
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Canada, AB, Division No. 6
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I still think thrust bearings are a good idea in the bottom end, might not be great in dusty conditions but they are made for the kind of thrust these motors deal with.
Might have to modify a couple to fit...
It's also easier to dry them out and oil them if you make multicopter snow angels
I forgot to let the KK2 board acclimate to the cold today, got some SERIOUS gyro drift and had to put it down in a snowbank. SPLUT!

*Edit* I'm working on a build log with pics of anything I have seen people have troubles with. Mounting the aluminum adapter to the servo horn is one, putting a thrust bearing and modifying the pivot is another. Should clear up a few things for people new to the hobby.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:15 PM
Fly, crash, rebuild.
United States, NY, Shelter Island
Joined May 2011
878 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyd123 View Post
Hey AutoXX.

Im wanting to do a similar build as yours with the APM2.5 and GoPro3.

Im hoping to use this motor (Long Booms) to try it out - Turnigy_D3536_9_910KV_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.ht ml and go to better motors later.

with this ESC Next Level Multi-Rotor ESC with SimonK Firmware - 40A

I also have an idea for a tailboom mod that Ill PM you about.

Shelterock - I couldnt see the weight of those motors... Im interested in making 2 of these Tris but I would like a big stable one and a smaller twitchy one.... Hmmmm
Jeff,
They weigh in at 54g for NTM2826-1000kv.
The rctimer HP4215 630kV weigh 70g but it's not clear whether thats shipping weight or just motor.
H
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:51 PM
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Canada, AB, Division No. 6
Joined May 2012
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There are a couple ways of doing this, the easiest way I could think of with the fewest tools is this one;
With an 8mm bit or endmill, bore all the way through where the flanged bearing usually sits.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372817&stc=1

The 9mm shoulder is for the 3X9mm thrust bearing but you don't HAVE to do it, this works fine without doing this plus it is very difficult if you don't have a drill press with a stop or a milling machine. Take care that you drill in a straight line with the existing 8mm hole.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372818&stc=1

You can see how the flanged bearing goes in.
Reassemble the pivot with the thrust bearing between the motor mount and the boom mount and just tighten the nut until it is snug. Too much pressure will deform or dent the bearing races and will likely ruin the flanged bearing.

The aluminum servo adapter was another people have had problems with;
If you are using the TGY-306G servo...
Drill the aluminum arm out a bit with a 5/16 bit, a step-drill bit will make this a lot easier (one cutting face tends to "grab" less.
Push the servo arm into the adapter, drill out the aluminum holes and through the servo horn with a 1/16th bit.
Remove the servo horn and re-drill the aluminum holes with a 5/64ths bit to allow the threads to pass without interfering.
Finally, countersink the holes in the aluminum so the screws sit flush and don't hit the servo.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372819&stc=1

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372820&stc=1

To assemble the servo case/rear landing gear, do yourself a favor and sand the corners or the tabs to help them start into the slots easier.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372821&stc=1

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372822&stc=1
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372920&stc=1

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372921&stc=1

I've gotten the upgraded pivot mostly finished so I'll post it as soon as I can
Hope that helps clear up a few problems, any questions feel free to PM me.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 07:13 PM
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Canada, AB, Division No. 6
Joined May 2012
21 Posts
Sorry to double post but I figured this would be better in a different one so as not to confuse the two mods.
This one you will need a 4X10mm thrust bearing and a 4X10 normal bearing. I used ceramic because they were cheap and very smooth but it's overkill.. I mean it was rubbing on bare aluminum before... ANYTHING is an improvement!
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372869&stc=1

The 3mm bolt seems a little light, I had an encounter with a small limb that shattered my rear prop (to be fair it was -35*C) and it landed flat from about 6 feet up into snow over grass. This light impact bent the stock 3mm shaft so it is a little weak...
Same procedure as the previous for the motor mount except that you also bore through to 4mm to fit the bigger shaft.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372870&stc=1

Don't bore 8mm through the boom mount like the previous post, just bore it out to 4mm and then make your shoulder for the thrust bearing, same as the motor mount. Then flip it over and bore ~4mm (bearing thickness) deep on the other side.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372871&stc=1

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372872&stc=1

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5372873&stc=1

10mm is the biggest you can go without running into problems but you could go smaller on the thrust bearing. Remember though, the smaller you go the more load is put on your main bolt.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:13 PM
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awesome... thanks autoxx and shelterock.

I started ordering my stuff on thursday.w00t
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:29 PM
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Norway, Sogn og Fjordane, Askvoll
Joined Aug 2012
85 Posts
1. Test with Gopro3BE - HD on Talon Tricopter

GoPro3 BE test1 (4 min 33 sec)
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:38 PM
Fly, crash, rebuild.
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Joined May 2011
878 Posts
Flies nice mic. What props and motor combo do you use? Flight controller?
H
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:49 AM
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Norway, Sogn og Fjordane, Askvoll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterock View Post
Flies nice mic. What props and motor combo do you use? Flight controller?
H
9x5 on RedRock 2212-11 1000KV with 20A Blueseries simonk soft on 3S
KK2.0 LCD -V1.4 from Kaptain KUK ;-)
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigmic View Post
9x5 on RedRock 2212-11 1000KV with 20A Blueseries simonk soft on 3S
KK2.0 LCD -V1.4 from Kaptain KUK ;-)
Hi I have a similar 3S setup - would you mind letting me know your KK2.0 settings?

Cheers

Jamie
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 08:06 PM
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Hobby King has the 380mm arms back in stock, so I went ahead and ordered a complete kit plus the longer arms. I also ordered a KK2, but have not decided upon the motors, I have a set of 30a Simonk's from RcTimer here though.
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