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Old Feb 21, 2013, 12:56 AM
F3A Team Finland
Finnspeed's Avatar
Järvenpää, Finland
Joined Nov 2005
911 Posts
Very nice build indeed!

I see you plan to use direct drive servos for the tail surfaces? Very neat idea but be careful with the CG. Kimmo's coaxial is quite light.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:49 AM
200 mph club
r/cmark's Avatar
United States, AZ, Fort Mohave
Joined Mar 2005
869 Posts
Nice build pics!
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 10:04 AM
200 mph club
r/cmark's Avatar
United States, AZ, Fort Mohave
Joined Mar 2005
869 Posts
I got my Spies kit. Looks nice!

How much heat from (a monokote iron) can the covering take. I don't think it will shrink like monokote, I just want to seal it where it touches the foam.

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Old Feb 26, 2013, 11:23 AM
WWII combat fan
mammuth's Avatar
Huddersfield
Joined Jul 2008
158 Posts
I set my iron to 100deg (lowest on the display)
PS. - what thickness of the depron do you have on the fuselage and the wings - is it 3 or 3.5mm ?
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 08:20 PM
200 mph club
r/cmark's Avatar
United States, AZ, Fort Mohave
Joined Mar 2005
869 Posts
I got a two long carbon strips 3 x .3 mm. I think one strip goes on the leading edge of the wing. Where does the second one go?





I did some tests on the monokote iron temperature: Looks around 150 is good 200 is not good, the covering doesn't melt but it warps the foam a LOT.







I did some measurements of the thickness:







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Old Feb 26, 2013, 10:58 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
A couple more pics. Landing gear leg installations, and nose bracing. I had the gear legs pass through the fuse about 2.375” below the crutch. I replaced the 1.4 mm CF rod in the kit with 1 mm tube for the gear legs (about 7” long), with an aft support (0.7mm), and a “spreader” string between the gear legs, approximately 1.5” above the wheelpants. Before gluing the landing gear legs, measure the height from the workbench and check the angles to make sure they are symmetrical so the plane will sit level and the gear legs will flex equally. Larger diameter CF rod / tube can be used without any additional support, but they are generally more prone to chatter/vibrate when sliding (or rolling if wheels are added) on takeoffs and landings. Rods to brace the nose essentially connect the very strong landing gear area to the ends of the CF flat in the nose, making for a very rigid nose that will not twist with torque loads from the motor.

Regards,

Dave
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 11:26 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
Removing the plane from bench, it is time to start adding equipment. I start with the aileron servo and linkages. The aileron servo is located at the leading edge of the wing. The kit included control horns and offset servo arm will give perfect throw if installed accurately (the aileron servo arm sweeps “forward”). The kit also includes CF rod, Z-bends, and heatshrink to hold the Z-bends, which I replaced with CF tube and ball links.

A quick note about the aileron servo arm. Use a small stock servo arm as the "base" for the large offset arm supplied in the kit. With the radio on, center the stock arm as closely as possible, and do not use any subtrim or trim to get it exactly centered. Then glue on the offset arm to be perfectly straight relative to the airframe, even if it is slightly offset to the stock arm. This results in symmetrical linkage without having any electronic offsets so that all of the servo travel can be used for aileron deflection while retaining maximum mechanical advantage. I use Kevlar thread and CA to firmly secure the arms together.

***Edit - addition
A little trick to getting perfectly centered ailerons. Use a depron "clamp" to hold the aileron centered while prepping the final length of the linkages. The clamp is simply 3 pieces of depron glued together, with the center piece being undersized so the clamp can be slid onto the crutch and aileron simultaneously.

Regards,

Dave
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 11:31 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
Locations of the elevator and rudder servos will depend largely on the weight of the power system and the servos. Typically, the elevator servo is generally mounted aft of the wing…possibly very close to the elevator, and uses a pushrod for connection. In my case, I used a very light servo and mounted it in the stab itself. Also pictured is my Arrow V6 which has the elevator servo mounted midway between the wing and stab. The elevator servo and linkage in the V6 was actually installed prior to removing the plane from the bench.

Regards,

Dave
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 04:28 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
R/C Mark,

For the 2nd 0.3 x 3 mm strip, I would use it on the sides of the fuse crutch between the wing and stab, and any leftover pieces to carry control horn loads across the chord of control surfaces.

Regards,

Dave
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 04:48 PM
BOSS
j_z_123's Avatar
New Jersey (excl EWR), United States
Joined Apr 2002
4,984 Posts
Dave!!!!! How are you buddy?? I'll be back in Jersey March 10-18th. Might have to make a trip down to see this! This is insane!!

Amazing how fast stuff changes... the motors look like a work a art!
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 07:24 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_z_123 View Post
Dave!!!!! How are you buddy?? I'll be back in Jersey March 10-18th. Might have to make a trip down to see this! This is insane!!

Amazing how fast stuff changes... the motors look like a work a art!
Definitely call when you are back!

Next bit of construction is installing the fuse top, again using aluminum angle stock and triangles for accurate alignment. Trial fit the top to make sure the tabs fit through the crutch properly. With my kit, it appeared the thickness of Depron was a bit more than the designed tolerance. I needed to slightly crush the tabs to fit through the slots, and the tabs did not fully extend through the crutch. I trimmed about .5 mm from the bottom of the fuse top in the areas that glue to the crutch to allow the tabs reach the fuselage bottom.

Next is the rudder hinging. After cutting the hinge bevel on the rudder, I put a strip of blenderm tape on the rudder, and then attached the rudder to the fin, holding the rudder at 45 degrees of deflection while adhering the tape to the fin. As I installed my rudder servo in the fin/hingeline, I did not add a pinned hinge or figure 8 hinges.

Regards,

Dave
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 07:47 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
And the remainder of the fuselage bracing…..typically CF rods from the top of the fin to the tip of the stab is sufficient. I added a couple extra rods to support the mounting area of the rudder servo. The taller, lighter fuses often have some reinforcement at the peak of the canopy.

Regards,

Dave
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 07:57 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
More common rudder servo installations have the rudder servo mounted in the top of the fuse, within the span of the wing, with a connection to the rudder using cables. The Spies kit includes pull pull material and fiberglass reinforcement plates for a CF rod control horn. Pictured is my Arrow V6 using kit supplied materials for the rudder pull pull.

Prior to installing the rudder servo, I generally do a quick CG check with the motor, ESC, and RX taped into place. For overall lightest weight, grouping the ESC, motor, and lipo close together is best….and this is often very close to the nose. Weight of rudder cables is negligible, so the rudder servo location can move quite a bit (in the interest of getting the correct CG location) with no downsides other than the weight of the rudder servo wire. With very light motor setups, rudder servos are occasionally mounted 1-2” behind the nose, just behind the lipo.

Vertical location of the servo horn in the rudder and the rudder servo itself are important to avoid inference with the elevator at full "up" and the aileron servo linkage.

Regards,

Dave
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Last edited by DaveL322; Feb 27, 2013 at 08:38 PM.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 08:44 PM
TEAM TWISTED
ROLLING CIRCLE's Avatar
United States, MD, Middle River
Joined Dec 2011
1,039 Posts
Dave,
Great to meet you last week. I'm sure we'll have some specific questions as we are just getting started this week. We managed to get the bags out of the bags out of the box so far. But, kudos to you for doing such a nice job on the build thread so far. Thanks for helping to bring this type of flying and building to us folks that admire it yet were afraid to hop in due to the advanced techniques used.

Erik and Aaron
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 09:47 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLING CIRCLE View Post
Dave,
Great to meet you last week. I'm sure we'll have some specific questions as we are just getting started this week. We managed to get the bags out of the bags out of the box so far. But, kudos to you for doing such a nice job on the build thread so far. Thanks for helping to bring this type of flying and building to us folks that admire it yet were afraid to hop in due to the advanced techniques used.

Erik and Aaron
Erik / Aaron,

Thanks! Nice talking with you at WRAM. Keep the workbench clean, build patiently, and I'm sure you will be fine. Biggest thing with a plane like the Spies is that it is very easy to damage while building.

A bit more now -
Motor/ESC/RX install – this is simple enough. Grouping this equipment close together (hopefully close to aileron and rudder servos) allows shorter wire lengths which can save a substantial amount of weight. With standard “X” motor mounts, I glue the mount to the fuse, and then use small strips of blenderm for additional security. For the Kimmo coaxial unit, I slotted the fuse for ½” lengths of plastic tube which were tapped for 2-56 nylon screws. After gluing the tubes in place (while attached to the coaxial unit to ensure perfect alignment), I further secured them using small pieces of fiberglass cloth to capture the tubes top/bottom and side/side. Battery is friction fit in a slot in the fuse.

Regards,

Dave
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