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Old Aug 22, 2012, 05:19 AM
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Align 450 Pro new pitch control links on 450 Sport?

Does anyone know if these will work on a belt drive tail?

http://helidirect.com/align-new-tail...83-p-27578.hdx

It only lists torque tube tails as being compatible but I always thought that the pitch slider geometry was the same as they use the same pitch slider on the Pro and Sport.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 09:38 AM
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Are you talking about just the links that you linked to or the new pitch control slider here: http://helidirect.com/align-450pro-v...osc103_product

I'd like to know if the new slider thing would work with modifications as obviously the side plate wouldn't fit but at forty bucks its a little too expensive to buy as an experiment.

-- Elisabeth
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 04:20 PM
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I mean just the pitch control links. It would be nice to not have to use the grip flip mod and have my tail blade grips facing the right way again.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 12:48 PM
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You can't just bolt on the side plate, but you can use the link arms and slider with some work. you have to shorten the fixed arm on the sideplate,(your present one), drill a new pivot hole, and make a spacer,( as the arm you just drilled and shortened is too thin, but at least, the bottom of it is in the right location ). Dont know how to attach a pic or I would. Would have glad'ly bought KDE, if they offered it, to have it done right. So, do-able, kinda PIA to get done, seems to work well once done. My Thoughts... Greg
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 09:29 PM
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Out of curiosity...

Why are you trying to use those links instead of the correct part?

The dimensions of those links are different.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by js32257 View Post
Out of curiosity...

Why are you trying to use those links instead of the correct part?

The dimensions of those links are different.
Because the original links don't provide enough pitch in the direction against torque. You can use just the links on a standard pitch slider but you have to limit the movement toward torque or they can lock. A small bushing cut to the right length will prevent this. They work pretty well with the ALZRC dual push slider, instead of flipping the grips and using the longer than standard links ALZRC provides you use the short Align ones and leave the grips unflipped.

Note that using a 42mm tail shaft instead of the grip flip mod will also cause the same problem with links locking if you go to far towards torque.

EDIT: I just figured out a solution to this problem. A 1mm brass bushing on the tail shaft between the slider and tailcase will prevent the slider from ever going far enough to lock the links. This will work with a 42mm tail shaft or the Align links. I don't know about other gyros but the Robird G31 doesn't move the slider far enough towards torque to ever lock, but I don't like the possibility. Put enough force on it and the slider will move far enough. With the bushing it's not possible.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
Because the original links don't provide enough pitch in the direction against torque. You can use just the links on a standard pitch slider but you have to limit the movement toward torque or they can lock. A small bushing cut to the right length will prevent this. They work pretty well with the ALZRC dual push slider, instead of flipping the grips and using the longer than standard links ALZRC provides you use the short Align ones and leave the grips unflipped.

Note that using a 42mm tail shaft instead of the grip flip mod will also cause the same problem with links locking if you go to far towards torque.

EDIT: I just figured out a solution to this problem. A 1mm brass bushing on the tail shaft between the slider and tailcase will prevent the slider from ever going far enough to lock the links. This will work with a 42mm tail shaft or the Align links. I don't know about other gyros but the Robird G31 doesn't move the slider far enough towards torque to ever lock, but I don't like the possibility. Put enough force on it and the slider will move far enough. With the bushing it's not possible.
I (sort of) know what you mean.
I've seen the finless bob video on tail geometry and did notice even before watching the video that the tail blades go "right" (against motor torque) less than they go "left" but...in practice...does it really matter?

You can get the heli whipping around in fast piros and the tail is nowhere near bottoming out. I think if you had full pitch it'd be an insanely fast rotation. I've never seen a camera mounted on the tail in flight to see what the slider is doing but I don't think it goes anywhere near the extremes.

Do you disagree?

...I couldn't resist and just googled it.

It does barely move.
But...I do get your point. I like things "even/perfect" too. Wish I could answer your question. I don't know if the links fit.

Tail Pitch slider TEST (1 min 48 sec)
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by js32257 View Post
But...I do get your point. I like things "even/perfect" too. Wish I could answer your question. I don't know if the links fit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeKOifdoVfA
They fit, but you need to put a 1mm bushing between the slider and the tailcase to prevent the possibility of the links locking due to slop moving the slider farther than the gyro commands it to. Basically you just need to stop the raised part of the slider bushing from going into the recessed hole in the side plate. Normally you can move the slider all the way over so that the bearing holder is resting directly against the sideplate and you don't want this with the new links, you want the slider to stop just where it would enter that hole above the bearing. I made the bushing out of a previously damaged brass tail slider bushing by cutting a 3mm slice out of it and then grinding it down to 1mm with a dremel tool. I clamped the long end of a tail shaft into the dremel and then put a a band of shrink tubing around the short end to hold half of the brass cylinder off the end and spin it by friction and then ground it down with some sandpaper till it was the right length (flipped it halfway through so both ends would be straight. Any 3mm ID metal or plastic tubing should work for this.

If you're using a Hobbyking Pro belt tailcase then there is a screw in the side plate that blocks the slider from going all the way over anyway so the bushing is unnecessary in that case (it's a design flaw normally but works in your favor here)

One thing I don't like is the lack of a bushing on the grip side of the link. I can see why Align did it, to reduce slop but the problem is that depending on the tolerance of the threaded hole in your grip if you tighten the screw it can clamp the link in place and if you back out the screw the link is still tight enough on the collar screw to possibly unscrew it from the grip. My solution was to use an 8mm screw and tighten it till the link binds, then back out slowly until it just starts to turn freely. Then I held the screw in place with the hex driver and tightened a nut on the screw on the other side of the hole with a bit of locktite on the threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by js32257 View Post
and did notice even before watching the video that the tail blades go "right" (against motor torque) less than they go "left" but...in practice...does it really matter?
With the stock setup it probably doesn't but when I put a 500w 2100kv 4S motor in my 450 Sport I started having all kinds of problems with bounce on a CCW piro and yaw and/or wagging on a hard climbout. Align probably only cares about what they actually sell though which is most likely why this problem has remained unresolved by them for years.
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