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Old Feb 02, 2013, 08:17 AM
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Jpop Andrew's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
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Looking great. You might think about adding some Pirate flags while you're at it
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 03:10 PM
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DanL's Avatar
United States, MN, Brainerd
Joined Oct 2004
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don't leave us hangin'
what type of printer, what ink, what fabric????
would love details.
Thanks,
Dan
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 03:24 PM
Pond Sailer's Avatar
United States, CA, Castro Valley
Joined Mar 2012
166 Posts
Tim, I have wondered how you have done things since you first logged on. I would pay to stand inline at a convention to see your stuff and hopfully you would be having live demonstrations. However, I worked for a company that went out of their way to keep stuff secret. So just this one time I want to vote to not share anymore of your secrets until you unvail your ship. Even block buster movies will hold off spoiler info until the movie has been shown. NOW I think you can share info in PM with colaberators that you know. Speaking about your ship as a lady, A girl needs to have some secrets. We have two ships in drydock being outfitted as I type that I can't wait to see unvailed.

I also vote for a few popular pirate flags, how cool would that be.

G
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:21 PM
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TBowman's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Aug 2012
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Hi Andrew

A Jolly Roger did cross my mind (like the idea of designing my own skull and crossbones for a flag). Also thought the "Don't give up the ship" flag would be good for Dan's brig. : ) Along with the Star Spangled Banner of course. For me though, priority is standard Royal Navy stuff. More into the military stuff then Pirate stuff. Just me.

Dan. Happy to post a step by step with photos when I have some time along with material samples/specifics I have many that (I have not tried yet). If I can do it, anyone can do it. There is no special equipment required. Only a few chemical solutions to pretreat the material. I think I have figured the best way for registration too using a template for each piece. I created the artwork for all of them in Illustrator afetr researching sizes, materials etc. Will play around with colors some more until I get the look I like. Thought it might be nice to have a few signal flags more weathered then others. So everything is not consistently new and perfect looking.

Gary...no secrets here. If something I do, or did, helps someone else with their project, happy to contribute at least something to this forum. After all, I like to think that this is what they are for. : )

Tim
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:30 PM
Pond Sailer's Avatar
United States, CA, Castro Valley
Joined Mar 2012
166 Posts
Your 1000% correct Tim. after rereading my last post I see I thought I was being complementary and spy like funny. I failed. 100%+ of what I have inherited from this rcgroups forum is all because of the generosity of excelent men how have invested more hours than can be imagined and freely passed this hard earned knolage to all who want to read it. to all that have I may have offended I am sorry. I by nature try to be funny, I am not a writer and its getting clear I can't do my own material.

Watching these builds on the fourums is like watching a great magic show and seeing one proformance after another of great effects one can't help ask how that trick is done. I have dabble in home magic in the past and have tried to enjoy shows and wait till the end to try and figure out how things were done. I felt your flag performance was still in the middle of the act and was waiting till the outcome to guess what you did to make it look so great.

on with the show.

G


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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:49 PM
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United States, CA, San Jose
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Hi Gary

There is no need to apologize. : ) I appreciate every post of yours, and others, on this thread.

Although the flag project is only in it's first, experimental steps, I am not patient enough to wait until I have completely finished products to show. This stuff is just too much fun. Besides, I don't have any masts and rigging to fly them from. : (

Here's a photos for scale reference of the flags so far.


And I couldn't wait to see just how big this ship will look so I quickly assembled the bow sprit just to see. Really made me smile.


Tim
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 06:18 PM
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Nov 2010
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Sweet Tim. She stretches out nice. Btw have you decided if you're going to use the folding mast technique, or keep the main masts fixed in place like Dan? Wish I had a huge trailer like Ray did with his Surprise and not have to do any decommissioning.

And speaking of flags, this reminds me of my favorite line from the book "Chronicles of the Frigate Macedonian" at the beginning of her battle and capture by the USS United States:

"Small lashed bundles soared up to the stranger's three mastheads and to the end of the spanker gaff. When the lashings were tugged free, four bright, peppermint-striped American ensigns snapped briskly over the frigate."
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpop Andrew View Post

And speaking of flags, this reminds me of my favorite line from the book "Chronicles of the Frigate Macedonian" at the beginning of her battle and capture by the USS United States:

"Small lashed bundles soared up to the stranger's three mastheads and to the end of the spanker gaff. When the lashings were tugged free, four bright, peppermint-striped American ensigns snapped briskly over the frigate."
That is a great quote Andrew. Was that the account written by the British sailor? That was a great read. It was interesting that the crew was wishing the sails spotted were French and not American. Paraphrasing but he said something like, we knew we could easily beat a French ship of war...but American? There were also several captured American sailors onboard pressed into service on Macadonian.

Masts on Scorpion - At the moment, I believe I will have the lower masts fixed so I can have the standing rigging fixed as well up to the tops. However, I'm thinking of a way to have it so it can be decommissioned (IE mast removed even if it is not that simple to do). The bow sprit? not sure yet.

Transporting the ship won't be a big deal but incase, for some unforeseen reason it needs to be taken down, would like to be able to do it.

Making the flags has made me think of ahead to the sails. A lot of the detailing could easily be done as artwork so it would "look" detailed. Panel coloring, stitching..etc etc. Even staining/weathering could be done that way. Might have to start on that for some extra fun!

Tim
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 03:22 PM
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United States, MN, Brainerd
Joined Oct 2004
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Tim,
Looks great with the bowsprit. Make up at least 2 extras with fittings etc - if you sail much, you ewill eventually need them
The idea of printed detail on sails is good. At scale, stitches, seams etc are soooo small anyway. Another reason is less work and more detail, which is good cuz you might want to make up extra sails - full sails, fully furled sails, and reefed sails. I have extra yards made up with furled sails and have a reefed driver on its own gaff. Planning to make up reefed topsails. Printing detail makes it easy to have alll those options.
Funny thing about sails - I've seen stained, worn sails looking dark tan and filthy in some light, but those same sails looking tan white when full in sunlight. Really a big effect of light on appearance.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 03:26 PM
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United States, CA, San Jose
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Hi Dan, Thanks. Two extra bow sprits? oh boy.

Here is a quick step by step of how I am making the flags for Scorpion. Thought I'd use some new Pirate flags as examples. I'm the type of person that just jumps into things. This is one of them so by no means is it the end all solution to scale flags. Just wanted to have a go at it....so I did.

Step One

Create your artwork using your favorite program. For me it's both Illustrator and photoshop. Be sure to leave some edge bleed for when it is folded and sewn. I used 5mm as a general rule. This was determined by how I sewed the Ensigns edge and amount of material I needed after final trimming. More on this later. You will need to create both an "a" side and a "b" side keeping in mind that any letters etc also need to be flipped to read right.

Artwork for a few basic Pirate flags

Side A (front)


Side B (back)


Notice the template I created on which both sides are aligned. This ensures best chance at decent registration. I have created specific templates for the various flags I am making. This piece also acts as a backing to ease printer feed.

Pirate flag template


Step Two

Pre-treat the material. After doing some quick research, I have found a wealth of information on home printing. Both cotton and silk materials will accept the ink and it gives a endless range of material weights, textures and colors to choose from. In order for the ink to remain as a permanent dye however, the material must first be treated. The large bottle is what I have used and it claims that it will make the color washable and or water proof. (yet to test this claim myself). Will post more on material samples and test later.


Step Three

Trim the material to fit on the template.


Step Four

Using a low-tack tape, secure material to the template/backing piece continually smoothing down the material during each edge taping to make sure there are no wrinkles or puckers at the edge. The tape is to keep the material taught and also provide for a smooth feed through the printer.


Step Five
Print the first side making sure you are feeding it in the correct direction.








Step Six

gently remove the tape being careful not to destroy backing template. (yes you could just use another one)


Step Seven
Flip the printed material over and lay down the flags printed side down and align with template boxes. Be sure feed direction is correct. ONLY FLIP vertically...not horizontally. Once aligned, Tape edges again being sure to check template alignment the whole time.



Step Eight
Print side B(back)




Step Nine
Gently remove flag material from backing and gently remove tape from flag material.


That's it! they are now ready for trimming and edge sewing and header.




Mine were done on a small, all-in-one HP Printer. I have a large format printer as well and will attempt some things on that too.
Hope this has been helpful.

Some thoughts.

The larger the material pice, the more distortion as the material moves under the printer head. This might be able to be remedied by some double sick tape underneath. Have yet to try this theory as the distortion isn't really enough to bother me.

Clean you printer heads before you print and after a few printing sessions.

Check you ink levels before wasting material.

Tim
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 11:02 AM
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Old news for every one but while researching more on our own flag from that time frame, came across the Fort McHenry flag. Really amazing piece of our history.







on display at the Smithsonian Museum


Tim
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 11:57 AM
Pond Sailer's Avatar
United States, CA, Castro Valley
Joined Mar 2012
166 Posts

Tim, I saw this flag 10 to 15 years ago hanging in Washington DC. its so big you can hardly believe it can stay in tact under its own wieght. We sure gave the British one heck of a target to aim at.

G
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 10:42 PM
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Nov 2010
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Lucky me got to see it at the Smithsonian last year. It's pretty cool that it's the same 15 star design that comes with the SC&H kits if you opt for the US ensign.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 04:48 PM
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United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Aug 2012
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HI Gary and Andrew

One of these I'll make it out to DC with my kids. Baltimore is as close as I have been(and that was on business so unfortunately didn't get to see the historic sites).

Here's some images of the samples I selected as most acceptable for scale flags, bot because of the 'hand' and texture that looked scale to me. Close ups are the ones I like. Thes can be bought at your local fabric store ore from here...which is also where I got the rinse.

http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3446-AA.shtml

















Enough of this, need to get back to actual building. : )
Tim
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 08:38 AM
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United States, MN, Brainerd
Joined Oct 2004
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Tim,
Thanks for posting the detailed info. Much appreciated.
Question please - from the website, looks as tho the 5mm silk might be good for small flags. What do you thnk? How's the drape of the 8mm sample you have?
Best,
Dan
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