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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:42 AM
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Ok I have some HORRIBLE news to report about my Mystique
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:08 PM
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United States, WA, Bellevue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamHorizon View Post
Video is coming soon, waiting on our editing team to complete it,

Pete
Pete any updates on this? If not can you give a ballpark estimate of ETA - within one week, one month, half an year or more?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Airman74 View Post
Ok I have some HORRIBLE news to report about my Mystique
Oh man...very sorry to hear that...hope you can fix whatever it is...
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:49 PM
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ddruck's Avatar
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Ok We are ready, what happened?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman74 View Post
Ok I have some HORRIBLE news to report about my Mystique
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 02:37 PM
Life's short - Enjoy!
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Zurich, Switzerland
Joined Nov 2009
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Ok, asteroid DA14 missed...

Now Airman, it is your turn
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DeeCee 57 View Post
Ok, asteroid DA14 missed...

Now Airman, it is your turn
Ok Da14 missed,, my Mystique didn't I'm sorry to say!!
2nd outing,, got my new 15 gram heavier aeronaught spinner on, checked CG right at 118 mm,, range check AGAIN 4x reccomended min range,, ALL controls check fine,, throw her out under power climbs out nicely ,, get her to altitude,, need to add a tiny bit of up trim,, to be expected with slightly fowArd CG ,, flying around doing all kinds of turns tight , big ,, etc etc,, you get the picture ,, she's handling GREAT,, so,,, from about 600-700 ft up decide to try dive test,, nose her down about 45deg,, wait ,, no pull up,, in fact is nosing down even more and accelerating quickly !!! Yikes!!! No biggie,, add in some up elevator,, still nosing down and accelerating EVEN MORE!!! Starting to be concerned now,, give FULL up elevator ( and yes I have reccomended throw on elevator) STILL diving straight down now,,, about 100 ft up, she starts to respond , but one wing panel rips off. :-O ,,, in she goes!!! TOTALLED!!! And yes I had BOTH wings securely taped. Check damage,, radio rec. still working,, don't think it was radio. One wing pretty bad,, but probably repairable,, other wing,,,,, root and inner third ripped out,, FUSE totally destroyed!!! Still can't quite figure what happened. With CG where it was at shouldn't have had that dive problem,, I've flown lots of slope planes that size that were faster,, never had a problem pulling out of a dive like THAT EVER!!! This is REALLY disturbing,, and I am TOTALLY bummed!!!:-(. I'm thinking maybe my elevator servo locked up????
I just don't know!! I'm at a total loss to explain. :-(. :-(
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 03:30 PM
Life's short - Enjoy!
DeeCee 57's Avatar
Zurich, Switzerland
Joined Nov 2009
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ok, have to agree that those are "some HORRIBLE news"

Sorry for your loss!

As for the cause... you have already done part of the investigation yourself. Reading you shows no pitch-up reaction at first, then enough to rip one wing off. Shows that your radio was responding. Could be that there was something blocking the action of the elevator or, like you mention, the servo itself. Or some loose contact to the servo. Was there enough juice in that battery?

Haven't even started on mine, maybe something to learn outta your mishap...
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 03:40 PM
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Wow, sorry to hear that. I hope it does not have the Radian problem, once you get those going past certain speed, the fuse starts to flex and full up will not do much since the tail bent the opposite direction with the down force of the elevator so the effect neutralized, but those are foam. Mine foami did similar thing as it pushed more and more nose down and speeding up, full elevator had no effect so I gave it full down, it back fliped and came out inverted. Worked like a charm. I think it was a fluke but lucky.
But this should be a pretty solid fuse, maybe built in slop in elevator control? I watched one of the old guys checking a new glider for a another flier. He grabbed the stab and held it tight and had the guy give it full up. There was a lot of buzzing, the servo moved full travel but the flying stab did not move much. It has too much slop in the linkage he said, do not fly it till you fix it. Possible? I would like someone, who has one, give it the same test and see if there are any push rod issues or excess flexibility in the whole push rod system, the air loads can get pretty hefty at speed and thermal gliders are not usually pushed very hard so it can be missed.
I really hate to see a nice glider cream like that. I am still considering buying one in the spring. At least parts can be ordered locally.
Dan
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 04:29 PM
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Your description was very painful to read. I am sorry to hear of your loss. We love these planes like they were our childern and to see one hurt .... well it is a terrible thing.

Just curious, did you try any other surfaces other than the elevator? If the elevator servo, linkage, control horn or surface should fail you can pull out of a dive using the rudder or the flaps. Either will take you out of a dive. If none of the surfaces responded then you can focus in on #1 and #4 below.

If you ever find yourself in a situation where you are going to crash and can't get out, put in full flaps. It may not prevent the crash but it will reduce the damage if you can get the flaps to deploy. In fact you can use flaps as an elevator substitute. If you have them on the left stick you can ease them in and out and they will provide pitch "influence" to some degree. Not as much control as the elevator but I have seen elevator failures that were landed using the flaps. In fact I have seen a plane flown for about 5 minutes in a contest with the elevator horn broken and the landing almost scored landing points.

All of the above learned the hard way due to servo failures, linkage failures, hinge failures or other mechanical issues.


From reading your description - possible issues based on failures I have seen or experienced myself.

1) power loss - My #1 suspect always
....battery failure
....battery plug/wire/solder failure - more likely - had this happen
....switch failure - might work now but it could have failed in flight - had this happen
..............found metal shavings in the switch due to some work I had done in the plane
....ESC/BEC failure - overheated BEC or just a plain failure

2) LInkage failure
.... control horn pulls out of surface - possible on a high speed dive
.... Control rod comes lose from connection to control horn - especially with the type that slide through with a locking screw, like what is used on the Radian
.... Flex in control rod sufficent that a high speed dive will flex it and not allow the surface to move
.... Control rod breakage - often at the joint with an end/clevis - Had this happen on the slope

3) Servo failure
... lock-up - lost a glider due to a lock up
... stripped gear
.... control horn
.... servo wire/plug bad
.... Wire not solidly plugged into receiver

4) Least Likely - RC loss of connection
.... Battery not fully charged and the receiver reboots
.... Receiver blocked from signal - poor installation
.... Simple receiver failure
.... Spektrum specific - wire to remote receiver loose/bad - causes all kinds of problems

Often it is hard to figure this out from the wreckage. But look and look hard. You really want to figure out what happened to you can learn from the experience, as you cry over the body of your fallen comrad.

Wiggle wires
put pressure on servos as you move them.
Check those clevis joints
Control horns
Hold the elevator and move the servo - if there is enough of the fuse left
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 05:28 PM
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Battery I was using was lightly used e flite 3200 30c checked just before went up,, so im pretty sure wasn't that. Servos that were still connected all working,, elevator servo ripped out unplugged so hard to determine. What I never checked before was moving elevator while holding pressure against it
Losing a plane like this IS like losing a family member as AEAJR said,, especially bad since only 2nd outing,, I've never totally destroyed a plane to this extent before ,, I AM REALLY REALLY depressed!!
I put off a few home projects to get this finished quicker. Ill just have to mourn the loss for awhile
:-(
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 06:06 PM
Guy
Canada, ON, Georgetown
Joined Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman74 View Post
Ok I have some HORRIBLE news to report about my Mystique
Airman really sorry to here that. This would devastate me too. I really hope you can figure it out so at least you know what happened. Hoping you collect yourself at some point and get the new pieces you need to rebuild her and get back into the air with it. Sounds so promising and you were having such a good time.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 06:27 PM
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The good news is the second build goes much faster.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 08:36 PM
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Here's something interesting I came up with,, using
This servo torque calculator. : http://www.mnbigbirds.com/Servo%20To...0Caculator.htm
I entered a value of 5 in surface cord on this plane cause its full flying, then control surface length of 30 in, deflection of 20 deg, servo arm deflection of 45 deg,,
And it tells me ill need 47 oz-in of torque,, and the reccomended Spektrum servo is only rated for 32oz.. Hmmmmm,, am I missing something here????
Oh,, and also had to enter in a speed value of course,, so I entered in 60 mph,, which I think is easily achievable in a dive with that plane,,, oh ya,, and of course I'm talking about the full flying stab here ( elevator) cause I'm thinking the elevator surface here is MUCH greater than non full flying and so we need more force to move?? Follow me??
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 09:42 PM
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Understood, and you raise an interesting point.

I don't have the measurements but I would only count the portion to the rear of the piviot rod as the area forward of that would be pushed down causing an offset force that will cancel out some of the force needed to lift the rear.

Again, did you try to move any other surface during the dive. Rudder, ailerons, flaps, anything?

Did it respond?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Understood, and you raise an interesting point.

I don't have the measurements but I would only count the portion to the rear of the piviot rod as the area forward of that would be pushed down causing an offset force that will cancel out some of the force needed to lift the rear.

Again, did you try to move any other surface during the dive. Rudder, ailerons, flaps, anything?

Did it respond?
Nope,, by time I realized it wasn't going to respond I got a little horrified and panicked,,, in retrospect I knew that's what I SHOULD'VE done,, hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it. :-)
By the time I thought to move another surface,, it was tooo late!! She picks up speed pretty fast in a dive
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