HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:46 PM
Joined Jan 2007
181 Posts
Guys here is a quick sketch I did to help bring some clarity of a typiclal linkage in a sailplane with ailerons and flaps, hopes this helps,
TeamHorizon is offline Find More Posts by TeamHorizon
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:33 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,244 Posts
The fact is that you can put your control horns anywhere you want and your servo arm anywhere you want. I have planes/gliders that have them them out the top of the wing, bottom and internally mounted. They all work.

The control rod/horns/servo arm arrangement on the Mystique seems to be about the compromise without getting into expensive set-ups. It gives you a good amount of surface movement while protecting the servo and the linkage from damage on landing.

Many will feel that you MUST get 90 degree flaps, but the fact is that, on a thermal duration glider, you really don't need it. 60 degrees is plenty. More than that is fine, but not really necessary. And, what I have seen, is when you are able to get full 90 degree flaps, you tend to apply too much flap and land short of your intended landing spot, or you hit too much flap in the air, drop your speed too low, and when you put the flaps back up, you stall because you have slowed down so much.

I am not saying 90 degrees is bad, just not needed for most situations.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:03 AM
Registered User
USA, CA, Chico
Joined Feb 2011
3,140 Posts
I personally have NEVER found 90deg flaps necessary,, maybe I've been flying the wrong kinds of planes. :-)
Airman74 is online now Find More Posts by Airman74
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:23 AM
Registered User
Bremen/Germany
Joined Apr 2004
467 Posts
Wing servo linkage

Hi,

recently I finished my Mystique and I am presently preparing a report for the German magazine AUFWIND.

While the aileron linkage is straightforward, the flap servo linkage is a bit complicated - but there is a very fast and simple cure:
Instead of mounting it against the servo well cover, I glued two little pieces of wood against the balsa sheeting and screwed the servo down at the same position. Servo arm length and position on the servo remain the same, the servo arm is slightly protruding through the slot in the cover. The rod requires an ever so slight bend and I cut away the balsa sheeting under the rod for more clearance.

The net result is also a considerably higher flap angle of around 80 - however, aeajr is right: There is no definite difference in breaking action between 70 or 80 or 90 degrees. This might be helpful for getting out of a strong thermal, some 35% down trim required(!), but if you want to do a nice flare-out landing you do not want to use more than approx. 20 to 40 degrees in order not to slow down too much.
And I would like to add: I have never understood that in a number of competition classes the FAI is promoting "precision" landings which look more like a controlled crash ...

Herbert
h.eberbach is online now Find More Posts by h.eberbach
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:52 AM
Registered User
mertz's Avatar
United States, NM, Rio Rancho
Joined Sep 2010
57 Posts
If your drawing is how the servos are suppose to be installed in the wings then this is the source of the issue with the linkages. The installation pictures in the instruction manual are wrong. Page 6-8 discuss the servo installation for the flaps and ailerons and in every picture they show the control arm orientated away from the opening. In your drawing you show the flap servo arm pointing out into the slot in the cover, there isn't one picture in your manual that illustrates this orientation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamHorizon View Post
Guys here is a quick sketch I did to help bring some clarity of a typiclal linkage in a sailplane with ailerons and flaps, hopes this helps,
mertz is offline Find More Posts by mertz
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 02:48 PM
Registered User
Winnipeg, Canada
Joined Jul 2006
92 Posts
As this seems more than a beginners model, perhaps the instructions should have been a little less specific. They could have shown scetches of different control insatallations and let the modeller use what worked best for him. I wanted more than the 45 degrees available without carving structure so my flap linkage is on the bottom.
Basic difference here is flap linkage on the bottome is easier while flap finkage on top usually ends up a little more aerodynamically cleaner.
EK
ekletke is offline Find More Posts by ekletke
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 02:50 PM
Joined Jan 2007
181 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mertz View Post
If your drawing is how the servos are suppose to be installed in the wings then this is the source of the issue with the linkages. The installation pictures in the instruction manual are wrong. Page 6-8 discuss the servo installation for the flaps and ailerons and in every picture they show the control arm orientated away from the opening. In your drawing you show the flap servo arm pointing out into the slot in the cover, there isn't one picture in your manual that illustrates this orientation.
Yes, the first illustration was more generic however you can install the flap linkage this way in the Mystique if you are wanting greater flap travel, that is why there is a a hole in the servo cover, it allows for this option. (My bad perhaps we should have made reference to this in the manual)
I have attached a illustration of how the Mystique linkage is installed based on the manual, obviously this setup is for less travel on the flap..

thanks

Pete
TeamHorizon is offline Find More Posts by TeamHorizon
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:39 PM
Registered User
mertz's Avatar
United States, NM, Rio Rancho
Joined Sep 2010
57 Posts
Pete,
Thanks for the update. If you look at your drawing you can see how close the control rods are to the top of the wing.i am going out flying this afternoon, I will make the servo mod tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

Guy
mertz is offline Find More Posts by mertz
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:16 PM
Registered User
KillerChaos's Avatar
Joined Jul 2011
27 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamHorizon View Post
Yes, the first illustration was more generic however you can install the flap linkage this way in the Mystique if you are wanting greater flap travel, that is why there is a a hole in the servo cover, it allows for this option. (My bad perhaps we should have made reference to this in the manual)
I have attached a illustration of how the Mystique linkage is installed based on the manual, obviously this setup is for less travel on the flap..

thanks

Pete
Very nice. Exactly what I had in mind. Many thanks for posting the image. I guess I better get with it and order the glider!

KillerChaos
KillerChaos is offline Find More Posts by KillerChaos
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 05:55 PM
Electric Glider Nut
timography's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Feb 2012
333 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by h.eberbach View Post
While the aileron linkage is straightforward, the flap servo linkage is a bit complicated - but there is a very fast and simple cure:
Instead of mounting it against the servo well cover, I glued two little pieces of wood against the balsa sheeting and screwed the servo down at the same position. Servo arm length and position on the servo remain the same, the servo arm is slightly protruding through the slot in the cover. The rod requires an ever so slight bend and I cut away the balsa sheeting under the rod for more clearance.

Herbert
Thats a great idea Herbert - have you got any images to show the flap servo installation?
timography is offline Find More Posts by timography
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2012, 08:01 AM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2005
1,893 Posts
I got the Jack Pak per the link in this thread. The bag is great and makes storage and transport simple without banging up this pretty plane. Plenty of room in the bag to fit every.
tclaridge is online now Find More Posts by tclaridge
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2012, 10:24 PM
Aka: Ralph
Canada, ON, Hamilton
Joined Nov 2012
235 Posts
Flap and aileron linkage

Let me first apologize for the bad photo.
This bending of the control linkage for the flaps and ailerons has been bugging me for a long time now. I have tried using examples on this site but just cant get that bend right. I'm not ready to mutalate the wing just yet. LOL.

Using a piece of copper wire as a mockup, I have come up with something that allows full up and down movement of the flaps with no further modifications to the wing.

Here is my question: If I bend (2) 90 degree angles on the kit provided control linkage just after the clevis, (see photo) will that control linkage be compromised ???
dangerdan is offline Find More Posts by dangerdan
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2012, 01:33 AM
Airborne whenever I can.
PAT-T's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edson
Joined Dec 2006
538 Posts
And I would like to add: I have never understood that in a number of competition classes the FAI is promoting "precision" landings which look more like a controlled crash ...

A very good point.

PAT
PAT-T is offline Find More Posts by PAT-T
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2012, 06:55 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,244 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT-T View Post
And I would like to add: I have never understood that in a number of competition classes the FAI is promoting "precision" landings which look more like a controlled crash ...

A very good point.

PAT
Not sure what that has to do with the Mystique, since this is not promoted as a serious competition glider. And those types of landings are typical of pure glider events not e-glider events. In FAI events, no one insists that you hard land your glider. That is the pilot's choice. You can slide in to a landing in FAI events. If the pilot feels he needs to hand land to get those extra few points that is a personal choice.

But this has nothing to do with the Mystique. If you want to fly in serious FAI or American TD style competition for pure gliders, and want to finish in the top 20%, you buy a glider that was built for that kind of competition. The Mystique is not that kind of glider. Top competition pilots would not select the Mystique for this kind of contest.

However for American style ALES contests, the Mystique should do very well, with no hard landings required.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Last edited by aeajr; Dec 23, 2012 at 07:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2012, 07:22 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,244 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerdan View Post
Let me first apologize for the bad photo.
This bending of the control linkage for the flaps and ailerons has been bugging me for a long time now. I have tried using examples on this site but just cant get that bend right. I'm not ready to mutalate the wing just yet. LOL.

Using a piece of copper wire as a mockup, I have come up with something that allows full up and down movement of the flaps with no further modifications to the wing.

Here is my question: If I bend (2) 90 degree angles on the kit provided control linkage just after the clevis, (see photo) will that control linkage be compromised ???
Naturally, since you put bends in the wire, it will not be a rigid as a straight wire so, yes it is compromised.

If the same thing could be accomplished with a more curved design I would expect that that would be stronger and less subject to undesired bending or other damage.

Having said that, while the rod is compromised that does not mean it is not adequate to the task. The greatest stress would be if you were to leave the flaps down, land at high speed, hitting the ground, tall grass, rocks, sticks or other debris.

If you land at a moderate speed and pull the flaps back before you touch ground you should be fine.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale New in the box E-Flite Taylorcraft ARF Kit plus High Performance E-Flite components Philscho Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 4 Aug 19, 2012 12:25 AM
Sold E-flite Habu 32 ARF with E-flite Motor/Fan/Retracts/ESC/lipo ton2di Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 3 Aug 16, 2012 07:42 PM
Sold (2) E-flite Power 32's, (2) E-flite 60a ESC, all NIB cybercrxt Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 8 May 17, 2012 01:53 PM
Discussion E-Flite Taylorcraft 450 ARF Kit and High Power E-Flite electrical components $300 Philscho Hot Online Deals 1 Mar 02, 2012 08:11 PM
Wanted WTB Art Hobby 2.5M or 2.9M e-glider rrweather Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 0 Sep 12, 2005 11:09 AM