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Old Oct 03, 2012, 11:30 AM
Never Stop Learning
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United States, GA, Atlanta
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I understand now, that did cross my mind thus the S vs SD in my post.
Airfoil design has been a part of my life for quite a while.

http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads.html

Understanding the design intentions for this glider Selig is a good choice for all round though a RG 14/15 would have been more interesting in many ways.

I will be flying the test model I have this weekend, always fun to test a new design.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 11:46 AM
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We look forward to your flight report. Will you be building as a pure or electric glider?

Thermal or slope?
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar22 View Post
I understand now, that did cross my mind thus the S vs SD in my post.
Airfoil design has been a part of my life for quite a while.

http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads.html

Understanding the design intentions for this glider Selig is a good choice for all round though a RG 14/15 would have been more interesting in many ways.

I will be flying the test model I have this weekend, always fun to test a new design.
A little off topic from the Mystique 2.9 discussion, but can you post a link to the best place to view the different airfoil profiles used for RC sailplanes?

thanks,
John
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 02:39 PM
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Did you click the links in my post a few posts back?
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 02:45 PM
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Did you click the links in my post a few posts back?
No, will do now. Thank you.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 03:55 PM
Horizon Hobby Employee
United States, IL, Mahomet
Joined Jun 2006
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Ed, in my opinion the statements you make are quite misleading. Wing loading only means so much, and the Mystique floats extremely well. It is every bit the floater rather than not. It also runs quite well.

Keep the glide speed up? Perhaps, if you were able to measure or distinguish within 1-2 mph, but the natural flying speed is easy to establish and no conscious effort to 'keep the speed up' is required. Easy enough to slow it at altitude and check the low speed end if desired.

CG


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Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
With a wing loading between 10 and 11 ounces, this will be no floater. It should be very good in windy conditions at that wing loading. I would bet it would be wonderful as a slope glider. Beautiful to the eye and elegant in flight.

Radian pilots be aware that this will need to glide faster than the Radian (WL about 6.5 oz.) or even the Radian Pro (WL around 8 ounces). So be prepared to keep the glide speed up.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Greening View Post
Ed, in my opinion the statements you make are quite misleading. Wing loading only means so much, and the Mystique floats extremely well. It is every bit the floater rather than not. It also runs quite well.

Keep the glide speed up? Perhaps, if you were able to measure or distinguish within 1-2 mph, but it the natural flying speed is easy to establish and no conscious effort to 'keep the speed up' is required. Easy enough to slow it at altitude and check the low speed end if desired.

CG
Any experienced pilot of any kind of aircraft recognizes that each aircraft is different in its handling. Many factors go into that. A major one is wing loading, especially in gliders and especially when the range is so large. Yes a 3M wing will handle higher wing loadings quite nicely but again the disparity is significant.

The term floater is a relative term, having no meaning of its own. It compares two things where one is more of a floater than the other. As you no doubt recall, in my post, my comments were in relation to the original Radian. I suggested that this glider will not be the floater that the Radian is. And nothing I said was negative or derogatory about any of the planes mentioned in the post. That is, unless you think all gliders should be floaters. I do not.

Now, if you are saying that this full house glider will float along like an original Radian at 60% higher wing loading, I will take your word for it. But in general I would not expect that to be the case.

Since many Radian owners have limited experience with other gliders, I thought it would be good to set the expectation properly so they will not be surprised or disappointed. Too many were shocked when the Radian Pro did not float like a Radian. The complaints were loud and broad based. Yet I have flown a Pro and find it to be a competent 2M full house glider representing good value for the price.

That extra wing loading is used by the pilot to his advantage to move around the sky quickly. And typically a higher wing loaded glider will penetrate into the wind better than a ligher, more "floaty" design. Isn't that why we add ballast, to increase the wing loading?

But I am only working from stats and my personal experience. You may have experience with this glider that I do not. If you say it floats like a Radian, then I am sure it does. Maybe it will rival an AVA. But I would be extremely surprised, at that wing loading. I would expect more pop, more zoom and more penetration than a Radian could ever hope to enjoy.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 05:06 PM
Horizon Hobby Employee
United States, IL, Mahomet
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I infer from your post that the floater term is general, and the speed in relation to the Radian.

Yes it flies faster, but it floats well, and due to it being considerably larger than the Radian does not appear to race around.

In my opinion one of the largest adjustments a Radian/Pro pilot will need to make is regarding airframe durability. The Mystique has much less 'bounceability'.

I disagree with most of your response but defer to your speculation. I never said it would float like a Radian. You guys can make that judgement after you fly it.

Craig, who has flown the Mystique.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Any experienced pilot of any kind of aircraft recognizes that each aircraft is different in its handling. Many factors go into that. A major one is wing loading, especially in gliders and especially when the range is so large. Yes a 3M wing will handle higher wing loadings quite nicely but again the disparity is significant.

The term floater is a relative term, having no meaning of its own. It compares two things where one is more of a floater than the other. As you no doubt recall, in my post, my comments were in relation to the original Radian. I suggested that this glider will not be the floater that the Radian is. And nothing I said was negative or derogatory about any of the planes mentioned in the post. That is, unless you think all gliders should be floaters. I do not.

Now, if you are saying that this full house glider will float along like an original Radian at 60% higher wing loading, I will take your word for it. But in general I would not expect that to be the case.

Since many Radian owners have limited experience with other gliders, I thought it would be good to set the expectation properly so they will not be surprised or disappointed. Too many were shocked when the Radian Pro did not float like a Radian. The complaints were loud and broad based. Yet I have flown a Pro and find it to be a competent 2M full house glider representing good value for the price.

That extra wing loading is used by the pilot to his advantage to move around the sky quickly. And typically a higher wing loaded glider will penetrate into the wind better than a ligher, more "floaty" design. Isn't that why we add ballast, to increase the wing loading?

But I am only working from stats and my personal experience. You may have experience with this glider that I do not. If you say it floats like a Radian, then I am sure it does. Maybe it will rival an AVA. But I would be extremely surprised, at that wing loading. I would expect more pop, more zoom and more penetration than a Radian could ever hope to enjoy.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 10:19 PM
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Well Craig, don't hold back. Tell us more. And compare it to other planes you have flown. I only speculate because there is so little actual information available. If you have flown it tell us more about it.

Electric or pure?

All up weight

What servos?

What power system, if it was electric.

What climb rate. Could you hit ALES target?


What radio?

Thermal or slope?

Wind conditions

Inquiring minds want to know, so they can stop speculating.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 10:25 PM
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hehe yeah - what aeajr said!!

we need to knowwwww
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 01:21 AM
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I would pass up all that information in lieu of being able to visit my LHS shop today and collect one. Just phoned the Aussie importer. Now saying late November, early December.

I would consider having one shipped direct from US, but I am sure the box size will be far too large, or shipping cost will be almost equal to the cost of the kit itself.

What to do?
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 07:58 AM
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I would pass up all that information in lieu of being able to visit my LHS shop today and collect one. Just phoned the Aussie importer. Now saying late November, early December.
no way! that sux huh... I was in ACE R/C again today and Scott reiterated the early November shipping date - yet you have it from the horses mouth that it's later than that... d'oh...

looks like I might have my TopModel Gracia all the way from the Czech Republic before the Mystique arrives [and I haven't actually ordered the Gracia yet...]
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Grazer View Post
I would pass up all that information in lieu of being able to visit my LHS shop today and collect one. Just phoned the Aussie importer. Now saying late November, early December.

I would consider having one shipped direct from US, but I am sure the box size will be far too large, or shipping cost will be almost equal to the cost of the kit itself.

What to do?
You are correct. Too big for USPS to ship and Fedex would be in the $529 min. range. You could put it on a boat, but it wouldn't get there until end of November/early December at best.
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 09:00 AM
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I got it
Was delivered yesterday at my house. Bought via www.modellhobby.de.
They had it in stock since 28/9.

Looks great. Can't wait to get it up in the air.
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 09:25 AM
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We can't wait for you to get it in the air either.

What are you putting in the Mystique?

Thermal or slope

Pure or electric?

What radio will you be using?
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