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Old Sep 11, 2012, 01:43 AM
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FINISHED boring all 1016 vertical press holes!

Now on to the 156 holes at the bottom of the fixtures for attaching the magnets...

EJWash
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 02:32 PM
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Started on boring the magnet mounting holes in the fixtures. I couldn't resist mounting a set of magnets on one of the 5-1/2" fixtures.

10-24 bolts are used to fasten the magnets to the fixture. A 3/16" hole is bored at the rear of the fixture, which the #10 bolt fits through snuggly. A 1/4" hole is bored at the face of the fixture. This larger hole allows for squaring the face of the fixture to the work surface.

Back to the drill press...

EJWash
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 03:17 PM
wood is good
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJWash1 View Post
Started on boring the magnet mounting holes in the fixtures. I couldn't resist mounting a set of magnets on one of the 5-1/2" fixtures.

10-24 bolts are used to fasten the magnets to the fixture. A 3/16" hole is bored at the rear of the fixture, which the #10 bolt fits through snuggly. A 1/4" hole is bored at the face of the fixture. This larger hole allows for squaring the face of the fixture to the work surface.

Back to the drill press...

EJWash
So that's how the pro's get everything to come out square!
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 07:07 PM
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So that's how the pro's get everything to come out square!
I wish I could lay claim to that much savvy and smarts, but I'm just following CafeenMan's example.

EJWash
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 10:28 PM
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ALL fixture holes bored! Alright!!!

Being that the 3-1/2" through 7-1/2" fixtures only have two sets of magnets, I was able to use the drilling jig to bore the face and rear magnet mounting holes. The 9-1/2" through 15-1/2" fixtures have three magnet sets each, so I was not able to use the drilling jig to bore the center hole in these taller fixtures. I was able to come up with a modification to the drilling jig that allowed me to secure and bore the center hole in the taller fixtures. A section of the front fence was cut-away, and one of the hold-down clamps was relocated. That I did not have to fabricate another jig for this task makes me one happy guy!

EJWash
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 10:50 PM
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Actually, considering the precision with which these were produced, I'd be surprised if you could not simply drill all the holes the same, without providing for adjustment.

As long as the edges are square, and the holes are drilled with those edges against a fence, then it just figures that all the rows of holes would be square to each other.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 01:26 AM
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I was thinking the same thing. There are two factors though:

1- the fixture must be (perfectly) square face-to-foot, and,
2- the magnet attachment holes must be (perfectly) parallel to the foot of the fixture and each other.

I have my table saw tuned very well, and I built the drilling jig as square as possible (to the best of my ability). Even at that, when I took one of the fixtures and attached magnets and laid it down on a flat surface with an Incra square against it, there was about an index card's width of light showing through at the bottom. The one larger magnet attachment hole makes it possible to make the adjustment to bring the fixture into absolute square. Splitting hairs? Close enough? Yeah, but that's the fun of it, eh?

EJWash
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 09:53 AM
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The problem with drill presses (and I've yet to come across any drill press that doesn't have this problem) is that there is too much play in the column. When there is no bit in mine I can't move the chuck noticeably. But if I grab the end of the bit it can move quite a lot. More than what is acceptable. I understand a center-drill is supposed to make that not matter but center drills don't work on wood. A drill bit can completely ignore the spot you center drilled and do whatever it wants.

I was drilling a bunch of identical parts using my fenced table mounted to an x-y table and could see the bit move when it hit the wood. These are precision parts and the hole needs to be dead-on - within 0.001" - 0.002". I've looked at $1,000 presses and put bits in them in the show room - same problem.

The point being that in theory the idea of drilling a line of holes using a fence works, but in practice the holes can end up all over the place.

For a personal project you can take the time to go slowly and adjust as needed but for production you'd go bankrupt if you tried to do things that way.

What I have found to be the most reliable way is to use the smallest drill bit you can put in your chuck and drill the holes. It's like center-drilling but it works better on wood than the center drill.

Then drill a second time.

Also, I use short jobbers bits. The shorter the bit the less that movement affects things. If that doesn't make sense just imagine the chuck being at an angle - the longer the thing is sticking out of the chuck the more off it will be. I'll even cut the shanks off bits when necessary to shorten them as long as the flutes are outside the chuck. That happens when I'm using larger bits that are in the chuck as far as possible but there's still a lot of shank outside the chuck.

Good job on your set, EJ. Now that you've done all that work, do my prices seem in line to you?
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 12:32 PM
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Wasn't trying to be critical of the great production job being done. Only offered my observation because I believe that I would have relied on the repeatability of my setup.

It is a good point that setting up for minimum quill travel reduces possible errors. However I have found that, when using twist drills in wood, a small pilot hole does not guaranty accuracy, as the larger bit can still walk off-center.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 12:42 PM
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You're right. It's not fool proof.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 02:50 PM
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Wasn't trying to be critical of the great production job being done. Only offered my observation because I believe that I would have relied on the repeatability of my setup.
I didn't take it as you being critical at all. Just the opposite - your words made me think and I put forth my thoughts. I appreciated your viewpoint.

EJWash
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CafeenMan View Post
Good job on your set, EJ.
Thanks CafeenMan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CafeenMan View Post
Now that you've done all that work, do my prices seem in line to you?
That's a question that I want to take a little more time in answering than I have at present. I have to get moving, so I'll post an answer later today. Don't worry, you'll LIKE it!

EJWash
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 12:34 AM
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CafeenMan,

Trust me, I thought about you in two aspects when I was boring the 1K+ holes in my fixtures. In one way, I was "felling your pain" in boring thousands of holes to fill your orders. The other was to just order a system from you and put it to work already!

As I posted, I spent several hours making a milling sled for each size fixture I wanted to include in my building set. Then I spent several hours cutting the fixture blanks. I spent several hours fabricatiing my drilling jig, once it was in use, I spent many hours boring holes. Now I am considering how (and if) I will finish/shape the top/rear side of the fixtures. In order to produce identical results to this area I will again fabricate a jig and spend hours milling in this area. Then its on to camfering the corners of the fixtures. More hours fabricating a jig for this tack, and more hours sanding-in the camfer. From there:

- final sanding of the fixtures
- milling of the vertical presses (and fabrication needed jigs)
- milling the vertical press pads
- milling desired bridges and piers
- milling desired bridge presses
- staining all components (by choice)
- applying finish to all components

With all of that said, I think that it is important to consider the time building the jigs to produce the System. This is a "one time" investment to a means of accuracy and to speed the production process.

The tooling must also be considered. We have invested $$$ and time in our tools here. So far, I've used my table saw, band saw, router, drill press, shop vac, and an assortment of drill bits, router bits, and saw blades.

I revisted the Airfield Models website and again reviewed the Bulidng System prices. Having traveled down the road of building my own system so far, I cannot understand how you can offer your services at such a low price. The time spent producing a turnkey system is huge.

EJWash
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 08:19 AM
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Thanks for the feedback EJ. What actually happened is I had my system in use and free plans for whoever wanted it as well as a detailed how-to so people could make their own. I never intended to sell these things. I have a model-builder's shop, not a factory.

So there I am building my latest plane when I get an email asking if I can make a set for someone because he doesn't have the tools, the time or the desire. So I clear my project out (and it never makes it back to the shop ever) and make a set.

At that time I only had the Standard Set. I was selling it lacquered for $125.00 when the magnets cost me $80.00. I wasn't thinking of it as a business as much as just helping a fellow modeler.

And then that started happening more. Eventually I realized I wasn't getting any planes built and I decided I was either going to make fixtures or not make fixtures but I was going to stop putting my projects aside all the time. I wasn't angry about it but I couldn't get anything built.

So it's taken years to get the whole act together. I'm almost at the point now where I can keep up with fixture production and build model airplanes.

What does kind of annoy me is I've had a few customers buy one of everything, then copy it and try to sell it. But when it comes down to it, anyone doing that is probably not willing to do the work necessary so it's never really been a threat.

Other guys buy one of everything for patterns to make their own and I'm perfectly fine with that. My whole site is about showing people they can make anything they want.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack. When you get started building with your fixture set it's going to be a whole new world for you. I love using them and when I consider back when I was poor, had zero tools and had to sand a straight edge by clamping wood to an actual straightedge and then sanding the wood using the metal as a guide to where I am now, building is so much more fun. I don't have to do every single thing the hard way any more. Fixture sales don't support me but they've made my shop very nice and well-equipped.

- Paul
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 01:41 AM
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Built the jigs for sanding-in the fixture corner chamfers and the fixture back angles. There were several options for finishing the back-top of the fixtures:

- leave them as is
- round-over the back of the fixtures
- add a tapering angle cut to the back of the fixtures.

I opted for the third choice.

The fixtures are ready for finish sanding.

EJWash
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