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Old Aug 09, 2012, 06:35 AM
VHO
glider misguider
Armidale NSW Australia
Joined Feb 2007
567 Posts
Contest
33rd Sailplane Expo and 66th Nats Glider and Electric Glider - Armidale January 2013

We will be holding the joint Nationals Glider and Electric Glider contest in conjunction with the 33rd Sailplane Expo from Friday 25th January until Monday 28th January 2013.

The program will be :-

F3J Glider Friday 25th

Thermal Glider, F5J, LEG Saturday 26th
(normal EXPO format) Sunday 27th
Monday 28th

F3K Discuss Launch Glider Saturday 26th lunch hour
Sunday 27th lunch hour
+ additional session at end of day
Monday 28th early morning session

I will post an entry form and brochure here within the next week.

See you in Armidale.

Hutton
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 01:58 AM
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Hutton,
Will F3J be hand tow or winches?
Geoff
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 06:23 AM
VHO
glider misguider
Armidale NSW Australia
Joined Feb 2007
567 Posts
Brochure and Entry form now available

Please find attached the brochure and entry form for Expo / Nats (some call it Natxpo) for 2013.

..and Geoff, you can use a winch in F3J. Indeed, I suspect most will.

See you in Armidale.

Hutton
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Last edited by VHO; Aug 21, 2012 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Revised Entry Form with ...wait for it ... new NATS LOGO
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 02:11 AM
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Hi Hutton,
Is Monday an early finish?
regards
Jim H
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 07:05 AM
VHO
glider misguider
Armidale NSW Australia
Joined Feb 2007
567 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhoud View Post
Hi Hutton,
Is Monday an early finish?
regards
Jim H
Hi Jim,

Yep. We plan to finish flying by 1-130. With time for presentations you should be away by 230 or 3 pm.

But, why did you ask?

See you in Armidale,

Hutton
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 06:14 AM
VHO
glider misguider
Armidale NSW Australia
Joined Feb 2007
567 Posts
Bump

New form featuring the New "Nats Logo" posted above.

Hopefully a Nats Bulletin will emerge and startle us with amazing revelations ... real soon now

In the meantime...

See you in Armidale,

Hutton
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VHO View Post
Hi Jim,

Yep. We plan to finish flying by 1-130. With time for presentations you should be away by 230 or 3 pm.

But, why did you ask?

See you in Armidale,

Hutton
Sorry missed it on the brochure,
Just tryng to sort out leave from work,

Seeya in jan
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 08:32 PM
VHO
glider misguider
Armidale NSW Australia
Joined Feb 2007
567 Posts
Time is rolling on...

.. and Sailplane Expo / Glider Nats (NatXpo ) is getting closer.

Entries please ?

Accommodation details for Armidale are available here

http://www.armidale.info/accommodation/index.htm

Look forward to seeing you in January (except our QLD / Northern NSW friends, who I will see at the Soaring State of Origin / Glide A Fair in Lismore on the 13 and 14th October).

See you in Armidale.

Hutton
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 06:56 AM
VHO
glider misguider
Armidale NSW Australia
Joined Feb 2007
567 Posts
Follow up to discussions at Glide a Fair (Lismore) today

At Lismore today there was some discussion about improving the format and organisation of Sailplane Expo / Glider / Electric Glider Nationals.

I agreed to bump this thread to provide a forum where discussion can take place for those who wish to add to what they said today or did not have the opportunity to speak and / or were not present.

In addition I enclose Nats Advise-2 circulated by MAAA to club secretaries for information and distribution.

Peter, Allen and myself welcome your input and advice as to how to better organise the events to maximise flying fun and ensure equity to all participants.

Please use this thread as a forum for discussion.

Rules.

1. Treat your fellows are you would want they treat you.

2. There are no guarantees that we can change the format for 2013.

See you in Armidale.

Hutton
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 07:02 PM
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Australia, NSW, Wauchope
Joined Jan 2012
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Where in Armidale is this event held?
Are spectators allowed?
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 04:43 PM
VHO
glider misguider
Armidale NSW Australia
Joined Feb 2007
567 Posts
Hi TL,

The information about how to get to the field and its GPS co-ordinates are in the above pdf.

Of course, you are welcome to come and watch.

See you in Armidale,

Hutton
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 05:03 AM
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All launch together

Sailplane Expo 2013, is currently proposed to reflect the same format as the past few years, with the exception that the F3J event that will occupy the entire first day of the event. This is an extra day on the front of the normal weekend agenda.

The remaining 2 days, are proposed to run as consecutive heats of Open Thermal, F5J, LEG and F3K. This consecutive format limits the total number of rounds possible over the time allotted.

The issue is one of time. Recent years of Expo have seen only 9 rounds flown over the 2 days in each category. This assumes no weather interruptions as happened at Expo 2012. By contrast, at Lismore’s Glide A Fair, thermal only event, this past weekend, we achieved 9 rounds in 1 days, with 4 heats per round.

Therefore, if you only participate in one category at Expo, you wait a very long time between your 9 flights, regardless of which category you chose. If you compete in all categories offered, you are very busy, enjoying maybe as many as 36 flights over the event. This inequity is the concern.

It is currently assumed that the Thermal event will attract over 40 competitors in 2013, with the Electric events attracting 20 plus, most competing in both F5J and LEG classes. With these numbers and based on recent years timing, those competing in Thermal Open only, or one only, of the Electric categories, you will probably have around 9 flights again.

It's critical to understand that each heat will take approximately 20 minutes to turn around, then assuming10+ people per heat, then 4 heats of Open Thermal, 2 x F5J, say 1 x LEG and 1 x F3K = 8 x 20 minutes, possibly over 2 hours to complete one full round of each category. Some will be faster, some slower, but logic suggests an absolute maximum of 4 rounds achievable in one day.

Your support is sought, to recommend that participants be limited to one launch category, thus allowing heats to be run concurrently, not consecutively. This has been done before at Expo and worked. This suggested change will fit the programme already advertised for 2013.

It is proposed, on the assumption, that most electric launch modellers don’t compete in the winch launch category and visa versa. For the benefit of all, this recommendation asks those who do, please choose one only at Expo, so that the number of rounds for all can be increased.

Concern was raised about working time monitoring? Most participants monitor their own working time etc, so seems little reason that this would hold back the idea.

The Expo could maintain its exposition character, promoting different types of launching methods and they can share the same sky at the same time, truly a jamboree of sailplane flying! Sure, we will need additional landing spots to accommodate extra congestion but this is easy to accommodate.

With the cost of travel, accommodation and food escalating, there is a fear that one category participants will simply abandon the Expo, because it becomes very poor value for money. To much time away from home, for too little flying?

Please support the recommendation that we all fly equal time, with all launch methods flying together. Your support will make this work and Expo will prosper. Please post your views. No voice will equal no change.

Phil
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 03:40 PM
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steve wenban's Avatar
Mt Annan Sydney Australia
Joined Dec 2003
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Just from an outside perspective ,with the advent of 2.4 and with enough ground support in timers and marshals, and such would it not be possible to run a few events at the same time (eg: 3 flight lines)? Of course it would take a little extra space to be able to run winch and electric and Handlaunch
side by side at the same time but it would be possible .Anyway the very best of luck for the event.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Sep 2003
1,145 Posts
Expo

Hutton,
I years past I have competed in two classes at the Expo - Open Thermal and LEG. This year I intend to be in Open Thermal and F5J. I find that entering in two classes provides about the right level of activity. In the few years where I was entered in just Open Thermal it could be a very long time between flights, unless you just happened to be drawn in back to back heats - but then after that it would be an eternity to the next flight.
Having the electric guys fly concurrently with the Open Thermal guys seems to have worked well in the past and I hope it continues.
Larger groups and fewer heats per round is one way to get more flights but you can get resource constrained with people required for timing and parachute retirieval so there is a operational limit to how far you can go with that concept.
See you in Armidale.
Fred
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 01:16 AM
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Thanks for your input Fred.

To run the Open Thermal and F5J concurrently, both categories would be in the air at the same time, you would have to chose the one you preferred most.

You draw attention to the long wait of modellers who fly only one of the disciplines. They are the majority of Expo attendees. These are the participants who are feared, will leave Expo because of the waiting around.

The intent of my post, was to seek support from people just like yourself, to chose between the one or the other discipline, with the anticipation that rather than getting 9 F5J flights and 9 Open Thermal flights, you would hopefully get 12 to 14 of the one discipline you chose.

The concept is all about having both disciplines in the air at the same time. Equal use of the time available.

Hope this helps?
Phil
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