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View Poll Results: what path to go?
1st Genius CP, later a 450 5 33.33%
scratch the Genius and go directly to a 450 5 33.33%
go for both at once 1 6.67%
none of the above, please post 4 26.67%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Aug 06, 2012, 03:44 AM
Registered User
Sudan, Khartoum
Joined Aug 2012
53 Posts
Question
Introducing myself and looking for some input

Hello everybody,

after reading for hours on this forum regarding my plans to get into RC helis I thought I'll register and introduce myself

I'm generally know as Bean and grew up in Switzerland. Currently I live in Khartoum (north east Africa) for another year or so before I move on due to work.
As my other hobby (cars not the RC ones) is running a bit dry, with me finishing my spare engine rebuild in the next months and no racetracks. I was looking to revive a passion from back in the days.

I worked for 1 year on Eurocopter AS332 Super Puma and Aérospatiale Alouette III (even had the opportunity to fly the small one mid flight when the pilot couldn't resist the urge to eat his sandwich)

So to cut an already long story short I'm looking to get my first RC electric heli.
I narrowed it quite a bit down in the last couple of months and decided to jump right into a FBL CP heli (I know some people don't agree to this step for a beginner but anything else would feel strange to me due to my background).

so far I narrowed it down to two different approaches (both combined with a Devo8s):
Walkera Genius CP and a 450 type
[*] the Walkera Genius CP seems to be quite a tough little bird and can be used indoors as well as around the house when there's no wind.

at that point I might need to add that I'm not much into 3D aerobatics (but then again who knows what the future might bring).
[*] 450 types; good outdoor, more stable, bigger but still affordable, able to lift my ContourHD

I most probably going to start with the CP just because the bundle with the Devo8s will save me 80$ on the Tx which I can put into other useful things like chargers, LiPos and a 450

Finally I'd appreciated to get some input to these scenarios.
  1. 1st genius, later a 450
  2. scratch the Genius and go directly to a 450
  3. go for both at once
  4. none of the above, please post

and regarding the 450, I'm stuck with two points.
  • DFC/SDC version or not
  • Align or Alzrc in respect to the mechanical design/construction
  • 3gx or 3gy

Thanks for reading and am looking forward to some opinions.
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Last edited by Bean Bandit; Aug 06, 2012 at 06:18 PM. Reason: hoping for some input to the questions at bottom
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 07:00 AM
Deviant
sbstnp's Avatar
Joined Jul 2012
1,161 Posts
Hello and welcome.

I was in your position a few months back and after doing homework I decided to go with a micro first.

So I got my Mini CP (first heli ever) - people told me I was nuts, but believe it or not I was hovering after 4 or 5 packs. So not _that_ difficult as it seems.

After about a month I could hover nose in and fly simple circuits, but, I still lose orientation from time to time.

So I say go for a micro, my Mini made me spend around 60 euros on parts so far. Broken parts list:

3 tail booms (until I reinforced the boom with a 1mm carbon rod and some CA)
1 rotor head
1 main motor (dunno, lasted maybe 100 flights) - going brushless soon
1 servo holder
1 landing gear
1 pair of main blades
2 or 3 tail motors (pulled wires, unrepairable)

Keep in mind that you WILL crash. Its inevitable. A small heli will take a crash with almost no damage or very light damage. A bigger bird not so much, so fly safe, take it easy at first and enjoy it

Good luck
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 08:06 AM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,434 Posts
Here are just a couple of points I'd like to bring up:

1. Most of the people who own them, say the Mini CP is better than the Genius. I had a Genius and couldn't fault it. They both have very short flight times, than can only be resolved by doing a brushless upgrade.

2. Walkera doesn't have a 450 sized model that would be a good choice. The V450D01 isn't a bad heli, but may be hard to find and Walkera discontinues models frequently and this one has been around longer than most of theirs.

3. You may have a problem finding a suitable receiver for the Devo transmitter, that will work on another brand of heli.

4. A flybarless micro CP heli is not a beginner heli. But, if your background includes crashing a lot, you will be very comfortable.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 11:39 AM
Registered User
Sudan, Khartoum
Joined Aug 2012
53 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
Here are just a couple of points I'd like to bring up:

1. Most of the people who own them, say the Mini CP is better than the Genius. I had a Genius and couldn't fault it. They both have very short flight times, than can only be resolved by doing a brushless upgrade.

2. Walkera doesn't have a 450 sized model that would be a good choice. The V450D01 isn't a bad heli, but may be hard to find and Walkera discontinues models frequently and this one has been around longer than most of theirs.

3. You may have a problem finding a suitable receiver for the Devo transmitter, that will work on another brand of heli.

4. A flybarless micro CP heli is not a beginner heli. But, if your background includes crashing a lot, you will be very comfortable.
Thanks for the inputs. I know that I'm aiming at "advanced" level. Do feel comfortable about it though despite the very high chance of crashing.

Anyway for the 450 I'm leaning heavy towards an Alzrc - I was planing to use the rx802. Could you maybe elaborate a bit more how this would hold me back?

Thanks in advance
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 12:01 PM
Registered User
Sudan, Khartoum
Joined Aug 2012
53 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbstnp View Post
Hello and welcome.

I was in your position a few months back and after doing homework I decided to go with a micro first.

So I got my Mini CP (first heli ever) - people told me I was nuts, but believe it or not I was hovering after 4 or 5 packs. So not _that_ difficult as it seems.

After about a month I could hover nose in and fly simple circuits, but, I still lose orientation from time to time.

So I say go for a micro, my Mini made me spend around 60 euros on parts so far. Broken parts list:

3 tail booms (until I reinforced the boom with a 1mm carbon rod and some CA)
1 rotor head
1 main motor (dunno, lasted maybe 100 flights) - going brushless soon
1 servo holder
1 landing gear
1 pair of main blades
2 or 3 tail motors (pulled wires, unrepairable)

Keep in mind that you WILL crash. Its inevitable. A small heli will take a crash with almost no damage or very light damage. A bigger bird not so much, so fly safe, take it easy at first and enjoy it

Good luck
quite a bit of parts, thanks for that list I'm sure this will help me when ordering to get a good head start on necessary repair parts
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 01:16 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,434 Posts
The RX802 certainly should work for you. Sorry, I have a hard time keeping up with their products. Anyway, since I have sold all of my Walkera gear and don't fly clones, all I can do is wish you luck!
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 01:35 PM
Registered User
Sudan, Khartoum
Joined Aug 2012
53 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
The RX802 certainly should work for you. Sorry, I have a hard time keeping up with their products. Anyway, since I have sold all of my Walkera gear and don't fly clones, all I can do is wish you luck!
Thanks I'll certainly need it
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 06:25 PM
Registered User
Sudan, Khartoum
Joined Aug 2012
53 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bean Bandit View Post
and regarding the 450, I'm stuck with two points.
  • DFC/SDC version or not
  • Align or Alzrc in respect to the mechanical design/construction
  • 3gx or 3gy
anyone got an opinion regarding the above?
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 08:59 PM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
1,605 Posts
"450 SDC/DFC Main rotor head set (Installed)"

I'm just here trying to figure out what SDC/DFC means.
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 12:53 AM
Registered User
Sudan, Khartoum
Joined Aug 2012
53 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble View Post
"450 SDC/DFC Main rotor head set (Installed)"

I'm just here trying to figure out what SDC/DFC means.
DFC (direct flight control) is the latest flybarless design rotorhead from Align. It's 'flatter' than before and therefore brings the head closer to the center of gravity



some more info here

SDC is the Alzrc (Align clone) name for the DFC head
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 02:29 AM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
1,605 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bean Bandit View Post
DFC (direct flight control) is the latest flybarless design rotorhead from Align. It's 'flatter' than before and therefore brings the head closer to the center of gravity

SDC is the Alzrc (Align clone) name for the DFC head
Thank you. BALR always talks about the center of gravity in the vertical direction and it's importance to properly make banked turns.
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 03:01 PM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,386 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bean Bandit View Post
anyone got an opinion regarding the above?
I've got two DFC kits, one for the 250 and one for the 500... still working on mounting them, but in addition to it just being a better design overall, it also appears to be slightly better quality. Now, my other head parts are old, so it could just be that I'm comparing worn out parts with shiny new parts, but I think they are a little better quality.

For the controller, I would go with BeastX. I like Spektrum/JR stuff, so the combo BeastX/Receiver unit is something I can use, and I really like it - saves you a ton of wiring and weight.

Also, I would bet, if you pushed him, Balr14 would let you know why he got rid of all his Walkera stuff. I don't advise going down that road. For the beginner, it's important that their equipment doesn't have any quality problems, and it's all tuned up correctly. Can you imagine trying to train someone to road race with the car pulling to the left like a NASCAR? That's what many beginners are doing to themselves with this low quality equipment.

If you want to step straight to CP helicopters, it can be done, and I know this because I did it, but you are going to need discipline, money, and time. It can be done, but you're going to need to learn all your flying skills on the simulator - that stuff that today's students can learn from a mild-mannered fixed pitch helicopter, you will be learning on the simulator. When you can hover the simulator for a few minutes in all orientation, and fly simple circuits, then you will be ready for the real thing. This is why the new trainers like the Blade SR-120 are so great - you can get to the fun part right away!

But yeah, if you want to jump right into CP helicopters, you have a huge learning curve, even with the FBL stuff. You know cars... the difference between the two is like the difference between distributor and electronic ignition - ie. not that much. You will still be pretty unlikely to get the setup perfect without help, and if you get the setup wrong, you'll be fighting the machine, without the skills to do so.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CRASH TO LEARN. I don't know why people say that. You will need to have a lot of discipline, the right equipment, and the right assistance. You can learn without crashing though. Don't get it into your head that crashing is ok, it's not. It's expensive, time-consuming, and it stops the learning/fun.
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 04:23 PM
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Joined Mar 2012
203 Posts
DFC must require a controller of some sort then? More gyros?

Alan
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 05:24 PM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,386 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KM6VV View Post
DFC must require a controller of some sort then? More gyros?

Alan
It's about the head mechanics. The difference is the dfc doesn't have a separate swash driver. It is driven by very strong pitch links. The control system is the same. Look at a Blade 450 for an example of the old system.
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 11:55 PM
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Joined Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
It's about the head mechanics. The difference is the dfc doesn't have a separate swash driver. It is driven by very strong pitch links. The control system is the same. Look at a Blade 450 for an example of the old system.
I'm not sure I trust that DFC head, what with Align

What's wrong with the old and reliable swash driver, headblock, etc...?

I can see that DFC head requiring much higher headspeeds due to rock hard dampeners.

I can foresee a few hobbyists having to visit hospital due to the new fangled and somewhat bad design of this Align contraption.
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