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Old Aug 02, 2012, 12:19 PM
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Todd Long's Avatar
North Bend, WA.
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How would you lay up a wing with these items

I currently have the following items and was wondering how you guys would use them to lay up your average 4 panel wing. Also interested in making the ailerons stiffer and trying to keep the wing in the 110~125 gram range.

1.5oz Unidirectional Carbon
4.0oz Unidirectional Carbon
0.5oz Carbon Veil
5.7 Carbon Fabric
1.5oz Glass Cloth
0.75oz Glass Cloth
1.7oz Kevlar
1.5mm Carbon Rod
0.5 and 0.75 ACT tape
1k, 3k and 12k Carbon Tow

When I get better (and rich) at this wing layup then I will start using spread tow but for now this is what I have.

Thanks,
Todd
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 12:29 PM
G_T
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Todd,

I'd use the 1.7oz Kevlar for skins. 1.5oz glass for center doublers and doublers over the servo wells. 1.5mm carbon rods as spars. If the rods are not intermediate modulus, then I'd double the rods (with a small spacing) out to perhaps 1 to 2 inches past the servo well. I'd use the 0.75oz glass for flaperon prefacing but that is optional depending on the wing design and the intended thrower. I'd use the carbon veil to cut out some nice small logo, and bag it into the wing under or over the Kevlar, just to look cool! I'd use the 1.5oz glass in combination with a narrower strip of 1.7oz kevlar, for the leading edge strip.

Bias on skins, bias on leading edge strip, bias on prefacing. Normal for root doubler(s).

I'd also use the 1.5oz glass, two strips center offset, for joining the wings. That is, strips perhaps 3/8" wide, each placed so that it goes 1/8" past the centerline. That way the layering goes 1-2-1 and the result is about as light as you can make it. If not comfortable working with something that narrow, go up to 1/2" width.

I'd use the 4oz unicarbon for tip doublers for the throwing blade. One layer each side. Oriented parallel to the spars. That works well with the biased Kevlar skins. Shape is sort of a triangle - One side goes parallel to the spars and overlaps them. You can find pictures of this in any of Phil's or my bagged wings.

Gerald
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 12:47 PM
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United States, CA, Tehachapi
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I would do everything exactly as GT said with one possible exception. I'd be tempted to use the 1k carbon tow for a disser. However, it's a bit of extra work and likely provides only a small additional amount of stiffness. It's by no means necessary, but it looks cool and will boost torsional stiffness by a little. It's up to you.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 12:53 PM
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Disser is such a foreign word. Killercando and I call it WAFFLE a we have made a nice WAFFLE MAKER....
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 01:28 PM
Aurora Builder
United States, MD, Lusby
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The disser spacing in that waffle wing is likely not to do too much, you want 1" or less. Wings I've built with ~2" disser spacing feel no more stiff to me than pure glass. And no, I didn't test in the load cell.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 01:35 PM
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GT hit it square on the head, Saved me a bunch of typing .lol

The only change I would make to GT`s suggestion would be to use two layers of your 1.5 uni stacked in opposite directions for the tip doublers.. The 4 oz uni out on the tip is a bit much and lacks proper fibre orientation.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 02:07 PM
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I know Kevlar is more abrasion resistant than glass but is it also stronger/stiffer for the same given weight?
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 02:29 PM
Hey was that a Thermal ????
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Originally Posted by Todd Long View Post
Disser is such a foreign word. Killercando and I call it WAFFLE a we have made a nice WAFFLE MAKER....
Belgain or traditional...?? Sorry I couldn't help myself.

Where did yiou find your lighter Uni-Carbon?

I would follow GT's recipe excatly, he hangs out with one of the best wing builders around.

Paul
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Long View Post
I know Kevlar is more abrasion resistant than glass but is it also stronger/stiffer for the same given weight?
The difference when using kevlar is mostly in dent resistance.I have done glass wings before and by the time I had finished the wings they already had dents all over them from rulers and knuckles and such during the process.

Kevlar is harder to get a smooth pin hole free surface but the overall durability is much better with kevlar.. When using the 1.7 kevlar I resist soaking up all the resin possible and the surface comes out fine with about 5-10 grams greater than the glass wings.

Ideally 1oz kevlar is best but the price is sickening .
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 02:34 PM
Aurora Builder
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DLGjunkyard, can you explain your tip doubler orientation? I'm a bit confused by the use of uni in opposite directions, I'm assuming you mean 90 degree to each other?

And yes, kevlar is stiffer than glass for equivalent weight. It is generally a bit stronger than normal E-glass but not much. Most of the increase in strength is due to the increase in inertia, as kevlar is thicker than glass. This thickness also provides much of the dent resistance.

Lots/all of this information is posted in these forums. If you are series about production, start reading, reading, and oh, do some more reading. And get a copy of Phil Barnes latest video. Also be aware that there is a reason most of the bagged models are coming out of Asia these days and most have converted to molded construction (even limited builder like myself have gone molded). The exception would be ASK (http://www.rcbuilder.com/Hand-Launch-Gliders_c_9.html). Don't expect to be able to hit that price point without a nice, very high quality ship. The F3K market is demanding. If you are aiming lower price point or for a niche, I might consider doing a 1M ship with some of Gerald's poly foils designed for that realm.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 02:34 PM
Aurora Builder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLGjunkyard View Post
The difference when using kevlar is mostly in dent resistance.I have done glass wings before and by the time I had finished the wings they already had dents all over them from rulers and knuckles and such during the process.

Kevlar is harder to get a smooth pin hole free surface but the overall durability is much better with kevlar.. When using the 1.7 kevlar I resist soaking up all the resin possible and the surface comes out fine with about 5-10 grams greater than the glass wings.

Ideally 1oz kevlar is best but the price is sickening .
Try the price on spread tow carbon. 1oz kevlar is cheap.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 02:40 PM
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yep ,Sam .90 to each other to form more of a bias fibre orientation. The 4 oz uni is pretty heavy out on the tip IMO . Might as well use what he has by doubling the lighter uni
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 02:47 PM
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North Bend, WA.
Joined Apr 2000
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Just doing for fun now. Been trying to upload pics of my wing I made last week but internet here is slow and not running well today. At 8:45 PM last night in dead air I was able to get a 2 min 17 sec flight from launch to catch. I was pretty happy about this because I had made the wings and tails myself. I did use a broken Neos fuselage that I had fixed.

This plane I built myself way out flies the Topsky Disser 2.0 that I had flown before.

Do have a friend who is machining us some Zone V2 wings and beds with elliptical washout.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...=5055383&stc=1


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...0&d=1343937207
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Long View Post
Just doing for fun now. Been trying to upload pics of my wing I made last week but internet here is slow and not running well today. At 8:45 PM last night in dead air I was able to get a 2 min 17 sec flight from launch to catch. I was pretty happy about this because I had made the wings and tails myself. I did use a broken Neos fuselage that I had fixed.

I am happy because this plane I built myself way out flies the Topsky Disser 2.0 that I had flown before.
It's a great feeling, isn't it! What foils/planform did you use for that wing?

Brandon
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 02:55 PM
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This one used a Zone V2 with templates I cut.

The leading edge is 1.5 oz cloth to the 25% line at 0/90 and behind that is is on a bias. The spar on the 25% is 4oz uni. Leading edge is Kevlar and the hinge is 1.1oz ripstop nylon Wing tips are 5.7oz carbon 45/45.

The wing when trimmed weighed 62 grams per panel.

Tails are depron with 0.75oz glass biased and 4oz uni. Can't remember individual weight but total for both was 12.7 grams with tape hinges.

Launch peg laid up by Killercando but he made me sand it..!
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